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Author Topic: A question about religion.  (Read 6700 times)

Willfor

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2011, 10:36:52 pm »
Quote from: hubris_incalculable on November 06, 2011, 10:29:24 pm
Dude, down this path lies madness.
Don't you think that's hubris of the incalculable sort?

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rarborman

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2011, 10:41:46 pm »
Quote from: Dsarker on November 06, 2011, 10:34:54 pm
He gave us free will. Free will means that we have the ability to choose to do anything we wish to do.
That means we have the choice to do what is evil. To break the relationship between you and God.
Does this mean that religion thinks god doesn't think before he acts or that he doesn't really care if you screw your life over or wants you to suffer?
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"But to that second circle of sad hell, Where ‘mid the gust, the whirlwind, and the flaw Of rain and hail-stones, lovers need not tell Their sorrows. Pale were the sweet lips I saw, Pale were the lips I kiss’d, and fair the form I floated with, about that melancholy storm."

Dsarker

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2011, 10:43:02 pm »
Quote from: rarborman on November 06, 2011, 10:41:46 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on November 06, 2011, 10:34:54 pm
He gave us free will. Free will means that we have the ability to choose to do anything we wish to do.
That means we have the choice to do what is evil. To break the relationship between you and God.
Does this mean that religion thinks god doesn't think before he acts or that he doesn't really care if you screw your life over or wants you to suffer?
No. He wants you to have true joy, and that means you must be able to choose not to have it.
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Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
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rarborman

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2011, 10:44:47 pm »
Do people actually have true joy with religion?
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"But to that second circle of sad hell, Where ‘mid the gust, the whirlwind, and the flaw Of rain and hail-stones, lovers need not tell Their sorrows. Pale were the sweet lips I saw, Pale were the lips I kiss’d, and fair the form I floated with, about that melancholy storm."

Scaraban

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2011, 10:46:41 pm »
Quote from: rarborman on November 06, 2011, 10:44:47 pm
Do people actually have true joy with religion?
My pastor has been through terrible times in his long life before he found Christ; he remains one of the happiest people I know.
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Dsarker

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2011, 10:47:20 pm »
Well, if you want the 'hard data' as it were, surveys show that clergy have the highest rate of happiness in America, for example.

I'd also say that they're not merely referring to life on Earth, in the Church Militant, but to heaven, in the Church Triumphant.
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Scaraban

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2011, 10:48:14 pm »
Quote from: Dsarker on November 06, 2011, 10:47:20 pm
Well, if you want the 'hard data' as it were, surveys show that clergy have the highest rate of happiness in America, for example.

I'd also say that they're not merely referring to life on Earth, in the Church Militant, but to heaven, in the Church Triumphant.
Sometimes I forget to make the distinction, I need to remember that.
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scriver

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2011, 10:48:31 pm »
Quote from: Neonivek on November 06, 2011, 10:16:15 pm
I don't really consider "Hypocrite" to be as serious of a character flaw as most people make it out to be.

It is one of those terms I think people overhype as "EVIL!" but that simply represents the limitation of being a human being.

It's considered a flaw because if people held themselves to the same standards as they hold others, the world would probably be a better place. Also, I don't think it's a limitation, I just think we need a lot of vigilance to catch ourselves being hypocrites.


Quote from: rarborman on November 06, 2011, 10:44:47 pm
Do people actually have true joy with religion?

You'd need to define true joy to know.
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rarborman

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2011, 10:50:22 pm »
What is true joy?

Why are there places of religious worship?
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"But to that second circle of sad hell, Where ‘mid the gust, the whirlwind, and the flaw Of rain and hail-stones, lovers need not tell Their sorrows. Pale were the sweet lips I saw, Pale were the lips I kiss’d, and fair the form I floated with, about that melancholy storm."

Vector

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2011, 10:51:31 pm »
Why are you trying to make us do your hard legwork?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2011, 10:52:16 pm »
Quote from: rarborman on November 06, 2011, 10:44:47 pm
Do people actually have true joy with religion?
You can't really make the distinction of "true joy" and "false joy", but people can find joy in just about anything. This says little about religion itself, as people will find joy in it just as often as they would find joy in being drunk and violent.
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scriver

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2011, 10:52:55 pm »
Quote from: rarborman on November 06, 2011, 10:50:22 pm
What is true joy?

This is one of those things you have to answer yourself ;)
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Neonivek

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2011, 10:55:28 pm »
Quote
Also, I don't think it's a limitation, I just think we need a lot of vigilance to catch ourselves being hypocrites.

I put the vast majority of hypocriticism into two categories

1) It is easier to know why YOU failed to do something then someone else. It is in a similar avenue of how people can easily hire family members inspite of a flawed resume... because they can fill in the gaps.
2) Saying people shouldn't do bad things even though you do them yourself while still recognising it as a flaw.

In the case for the second. Hypocrit is in fact a virtue and not a flaw. In the first it is that knowing others is difficult.

People believe being a hypocrit is a HUGE character flaw when really it is a minor one at best. In fact it seems like the reason hypocrits are considered "EVIL" is because people don't like being preached to and will find any flaw to object to it.

Quote
It's considered a flaw because if people held themselves to the same standards as they hold others, the world would probably be a better place

They do. That is the thing about Hypocrits. They RARELY believe they are themselves above what they preach. It is just a difference in information.

It is like "EVIL" people. They rarely believe they are "EVIL" even if their cackles cause lightning to fall.
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Hubris Incalculable

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2011, 10:55:59 pm »
Quote from: the quote button isn't working for me right now. aaargh.
Does this mean that religion thinks god doesn't think before he acts or that he doesn't really care if you screw your life over or wants you to suffer?
Christian point of view: Oh he cares, all right. It makes him very unhappy when we do what's wrong, but he still loves us. The whole 'Jesus dying on the cross' thing was to allow us to turn back to doing what's right IF we want. If we don't accept the gift, we still suffer the punishment that was going to happen to EVERYONE (not just those who don't accept the forgiveness) before he came ans sacrificed himself in his place.

Humanity disobeyed. We deserve eternal torment. God came down in human form, and committed absolutely no wrong, but accepted all the punishment that those who did do wrong would have suffered, thereby allowing the wrongdoers the chance of being acquitted of all charges, if they accept it and cease doing wrong. That isn't to say that you are immediately and permanently sent back to punishment if you stray, because you have infinite chances to accept the forgiveness. EDIT: That's Mercy and Grace, for you.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 11:06:15 pm by hubris_incalculable »
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Hiiri

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Re: A question about religion.
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2011, 11:18:42 pm »
Quote from: rarborman on November 06, 2011, 10:50:22 pm
What is true joy?

Joy is true joy. Eat a tasty biscuit, hear a funny joke, inject heroin or sing together at a church. It's just a simple emotion. "True" is an useless adjective.
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