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Yes

125 (55.1%)

No

102 (44.9%)

Total Members Voted: 227

[Telgin]

I'd say as a concept it's not an exploit, but it should probably give a lot less experience than it does.  In real life you could learn from weapon traps around you, but you won't learn a whole lot after the first few dozen swings it takes at you.  It should be less effective than sparring, and probably shouldn't scale up with the number of weapons in the trap.

So in my perfect little world, I'd dramatically reduce the experience that weapon traps grant and increase the experience from demonstrations and sparring.  That is just too slow at the moment, unless high teaching skill makes more of a difference than I think it does.

[Girlinhat]

The issue is that it's impossible to balance.  A danger room strike is a weapon strike.  The only way to make danger rooms give less xp is to make all combat give less XP, or increase the delay in mechanisms.  Neither is very good and will break other areas of gameplay.

[Necromunger]

By 'legitimate' i mean how fair it is compared to other training elements in the game and how plausible it is to consider yourself hard done by using this compared to normal means.

[Lordraymond]

It probably wouldn't be overly difficult to just attach a [TRAP_ATTACK] tag or the like somewhere in the code for all attacks from traps, so that they give reduced or even no EXP, coupled with sparring and whatnot giving much higher experience than it currently does.

[Masta Crouton]

nothing is illegitimate. geez people. why is it the internet makes people feel the need to be superior to other people?

[JDF117]

 Personally, I view danger rooms as illegitimate. They remove much of the skill needed in creating and maintaining a military. No matter how I rationalize it, getting legendary +5 swordsmen with only 13 logs, 3 rocks, and a season is completely ridiculous. Where's the enjoyment?

  Of course, there are ways to make it more balanced with regards to effort vs. rewards. If you built a water logic unit to power the trap, you've taken about as much time as conventional training with prisoner beating anyway, so you may find it justifiable. It's an opinion question after all, and it depends upon what people are playing the game for and how much work they put into it.

[Girlinhat]

Ultimately though, the question is moot based on the "don't like it don't use it" feature.  If they're illegitimate, then don't use them.  If they are, then slaughter your foes with migrant lye makers.  Do what you want, it's your game.

[nerdyboy321123]

I personally don't use them frequently, only on fortresses where my goal is something specific, and I don't want to also have to worry about training a military. But I don't understand the controversy over them. DF is a single player game, if you're playing a bloodline and the guy that went before you danger roomed every dwarf in the fortress, sure get pissed, because that interferes with your gameplay. However, if somebody you don't personally know, hundreds of miles away from you feels like using a danger room in a fortress that plays no role in how you play the game. Why does it matter if you disagree with it? As long as they're not forcing their views on you, or telling you that you're stupid for not using danger rooms or some such, why on earth does it matter if they do something you don't like. DF is singleplayer, as in one player, if that player feels like doing something, that's his choice. You have your own way of doing things that I would find appalling too. To each his own.

[GotIt_00]

I'm back on the forum after a few months away, and I see everything is in order.

As others have said, why try to suggest there's a legitimate way to play the game?

I most enjoy DF when I'm scrawling stuff on paper and making lists.

Now, I'm not saying everyone should play this way, but people who do not are clearly playing a bastardized version.

[Tevish Szat]

Danger rooms should be a valid training technique (I voted yes myself) -- your trainees are suffering real attacks, even if (mostly) harmless ones

However, they currently train their targets unreasonably quickly.  While the concept of a danger room should work, you shouldn't be able to throw your new meat in the box and have them come out legendary in a single session.  It has a greater chance of injury than general sparring, and so should yield a greater reward, but not so much greater that it obsoletes fire-and-forget Train (X minimum) orders.

Danger rooms are a valid tactic that is currently imbalanced.

[Necromunger]

We are tied 24 - 24 at the moment.

This is a more interesting result then i thought we would get.

[Kofthefens]

I personally primarily use arenas, but when I do use danger rooms, I only use 1 spear. In addition, to combat the speed of it, I only have them in it every few months.

Overall, I would say that they are not unfair. They are certainly too fast for me, but, as perhaps 300 other people have said before me, it's your game. You can easily create a most dwarfy way do tone it down, and you're all good. You have created a far-too-complicated method of training your soldiers at a reasonable speed.

[ASCIt]

I'd say it's legit for some things. For example, dodging and armor using make perfect sense. I suppose that if the spears came out of both the walls and floors, it could also simulate sparring, but as it stands that's a bit of a stretch. I'm sorry, but it really makes no sense that it trains wrestling, because wut?

[AWellTrainedFerret]

I don't mind them at all, because let's face it: a +5 legendary militia is great and all against goblins and stray monsters, but it only takes 1 really nasty thing to wipe the floor with all of them. I thought I was invincible first time I used it, then outta nowhere I got "Lol, paralyzing dust". Fort wipe.

[Boost One]

Training dodging doesn't make sense, either. What kind of enemy attacks from the same direction at regular intervals? I remember the Kung Fu Panda bit, and the panda gets hit by every swinging bar because he doesn't know what's going on. The other trainees get through the obstacle course only because they already know where the traps are. Becoming skilled at navigating a danger room is certainly similar to dodging enemy attacks. It would train general agility, coordination, spacial awareness and observance. But it isn't actual combat! Swinging blocks or poking spears are predictable, but bad guys fight dirty.

At best you're facilitating your learning of real combat skills, like dodging. At worst, you're getting so used to the danger room that you develop bad habits.

(I don't know a better term than 'bad habits' here... my example is that martial arts beginners often get used to pulling punches during sparring, and can develop the habit of doing so, even in an actual match. Dodging a elf strike as if it were a swinging block would likely get you killed. An elf is marginally more intelligent less stupid than a block.)

As others have said, why try to suggest there's a legitimate way to play the game?

'Illegitimate' or 'unfair' are admittedly the wrong words to use. I don't think anyone wants to dictate how others play. On the other hand, ultimately we're testing an alpha build. Perhaps danger rooms are too easy, so Toady can decide on it. Having everyone express an opinion and a having little debate helps, I imagine.

nothing is illegitimate. geez people. why is it the internet makes people feel the need to be superior to other people?

I don't understand the comment?  Is it a joke?