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[tolkafox]

It's getting a bit hot in here ^.^

I think the community is evenly divided between Toady having more releases with less quality and Toady focusing on the quality of the release regardless of how long it takes. Only Toady knows for certain what's going on though :p

In the meantime, can I ask that we don't attack ourselves over petty words or differing opinions? None of us are right or wrong, so I don't see the necessity of fighting.

[ChristmasDwarf]

I see you didn't understood what I meant 

What I'm trying to tell is that he's going too far ahead with new content before getting what was planned done. The current version was supposed to be released around half a year ago, but Toady went on and kept on adding new stuff all the time, preventing the completion of it.

Just as it was recently, he was sorting out the last vampire related things, seemed to be the last thing before the release, but then he added the new crime system and the need to get rid of any kinks that came along with it, while probably adding once more something new and the need to fix it.

It's just common sense that he releases what's in as soon as possible, then begins the bug-fixing of those and FINALLY going back to new features, or otherwise he'll be buried under all that work, unable to complete anything.

I'm concerned that this might turn into a DNF rollercoaster, that's all. 

Absolutely right. It's wise to perfect everything that you have before adding more. And strangers in the community don't have an authoritative say on what Toady does or not. What you're seeing is wisdom's call to a wise and sound coding practice rather than a strange one. I think Toady realizes it.

[Neonivek]

Absolutely right. It's wise to perfect everything that you have before adding more

Ahh yes that Motto: "You reach perfection in design not when you have nothing more to add but when you have nothing more to take away"

[thvaz]

Absolutely right. It's wise to perfect everything that you have before adding more

Ahh yes that Motto: "You reach perfection in design not when you have nothing more to add but when you have nothing more to take away"

Every other game released nowadays already follow this motto. To most of this community, they are called "dumbed-down" games.

[scriver]

Not the same thing. It just means to avoid padding. Like not having a meaningless toilet-scene in a book or movie. Or not have a meaningless pick-up-women-in-bar mini-game in a WWII flight simulator. It means that you should have a clear focus, not that it should be simpler or dumbed down.

I'm not sure I agree with it anyway. Padding isn't always automatically bad. Especially when itbcomes to games, I've played more than a few who died because they did not have enough interesting fluff. Mount&Blade, for example- Great game, great fun, but nothing to hook you in and make you care for the world or why you are fighting all those battles.

[Mike Mayday]

I think if the battles were more diverse and challenging, that wouldn't really be a problem.

[Neonivek]

It doesn't mean to dumb things down or to avoid padding things out.

It does refer to padding things out when larger flaws exist.

[Sutremaine]

I probably should be bothered by enemy attacks being essentially the same as when they were when the game was first released, but I'm not. I guess I'm just used to the clunkiness and focusing on the things DF does that no other game does.

I also realize that it's fun to take a break from the big stuff and work on details.

I can see Toady working on the details so that he has an idea where he wants to start with the big stuff. The core mechanics are big hunks of stuff to work with, and figuring out what form those behemoths are going to take is as much work as writing out the code for it.

[Starver]

Personally, I think the game is playable.  The long (and largely unknown and unknowable) length of time between last update and The Next Big Update is at least letting me slowly (oh so slowly) micromanage this current fort.

An update would be nice. An update might indeed fix some issue.  An update would probably mean I'd forget my sub-sub-version .25 fort, even if it's just an update to sub-sub-version .26!.  If it's 0.32(or more).whatever, it definitely would mean this.  At least after I waited a day to see if 0.32.1, 0.32.2 or 0.32.3 were being released[1].  But the lack of an update does not mean lack of Dwarf Fortress, like the delayed and partial upgrade of a browser-game or MUD/MMORPG servers/code/data/whatever might mean.

I recognise issues that aren't perfect, but none of them (to my mind, YMMV) are game-breaking.  As long as Toady isn't goofing off and just stuck in a TVTropes cycle, or something, I have no cause to complain.  Actually, I really have no cause to complain if he is, for I (to my shame, albeit due to a certain other demands on my personal 'fortune', for an extended period of time) have never paid him a single penny, cent, yen, eurocent, groszy, glass bead, crescent, knut or ningi.  And even those who have contributed may well have been directly repaid (in spades!) with their Sponsored Animal or other nugget that represents the limit of the written or unwritten contract associated with said payment.

I can sympathise with those who do not feel this version 'works'.  I do not agree with them.  I await several things, of various relevancies to the game (from not-at-all to quite-a-bit), not least a position of employment with sufficiently commensurate pay that I can deal with the results of past commitments and then extend myself further towards such 'frivolities' as (I would hope, and certainly I would necessarily assert while on these fora) giving Toady that little nudge of encouragement in his chosen path.  While I am waiting (or, rather, in-between the gaps in which I am actively pursuing those items which it is theoretically in my power to achieve by my own efforts), DF as it stands is a welcome distraction.

DF as it next reincarnates may well have dug the data-grave for my currently happy (and, in some cases, ecstatic) band of Fortresseers, much as pre-existing dwarfs have lived, and occasionally died, but now remain frozen within abandoned worlds effectively as lifeless as Jadis of Charn's old world.  That they are unaware of their predicament may well be considered to their advantage[2].


[1] Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be the first person to find and report the bug that, say, necromancers are apparently bringing dead shrubs back to life, or castle keeps in the new towns have an entire middle-level missing, inadvertently, but I reckon others would report them as quickly as I could, and with the time available to me I'm more likely to be getting "sloppy seconds" on all such bugs and getting the "whoops, fixed that now" version within a day or too of the offending release is probably what I'd be able to do.  Makes me feel like a freeloader (more so, than normal, that is), but it'll be likely.

[2] Urist McUrist cancels current excavations: Suffers from a feeling of existential peril

[Anathema]

I'd love to be the first person to find and report the bug that, say, necromancers are apparently bringing dead shrubs back to life...

I don't see anything wrong with that. How else are new necromancer apprentices supposed to raise the skill up?

Ok, ok, on topic - I prefer the more delayed releases, it's the only way we're going to see major, truly innovative changes to the game. I mean beekeeping is alright, but I wouldn't trade one major update (like the one coming up, or the first 31 update, or the one that first went to 3d) for a dozen smaller updates that add minor features like bees and pottery. The problem with those smaller updates is you're limited to features that don't impact the rest of the game; you can't add anything really game-changing like vampirism, because you'd have to rework or add half a dozen other systems it affects (syndromes, city catacombs, reporting crimes, history/aliases, and so on), if you didn't do all that then it wouldn't be much of a vampirism system. These major features, the ones that have affects that ripple out to the rest of the game, are far more interesting to me than minor self-contained ones.

[Zangi]

I'm in the 'let Toady do his thing' camp.

Sure, he could release smaller changes every month or 3... but... most of them will effectively end up being small details, not game changing...

Also, there are OCD people like me, who would end up putting off playing the game to 'wait for the next release' if it feels like the changes arn't enough and the next update is close. 
Considering save compatibility issues that may or my not come into effect.

[tolkafox]

You also have to look at our lovely third party utilities. I have so many happy thoughts of not having to download DT, Stonesense, Worldviewer, DFcleanmap, and overseer every other month. I'm sure the developers are glad they don't have to post the download every other month as well.

[nenjin]

Yeah, the amount of 3rd party programs I use now makes me glad that we don't have quarterly updates. Having to reinstall a tileset at least 4 times a year, and wait up to two weeks after every release to even try them out, would get old.

As it is now, when Toady drops an update then has to do some emergency patching I end up waiting at least two weeks anyways, just to be on the safe side.

Luckily there will be a hefty adventure mode component to this update, which is less of a commitment than "the next fort."

[Dakk]

While I do agree certain for mode aspects like sieges could use a hand of coding paint, Toady already stated he wants to wait till armies become real and actualy move through the map before he makes sieges more interesting. Plus, adventurer mode has been getting a lot of love in the past updates. Two years ago adventurer mode was pretty barren, and with 1 updated its content easily tripled in size.

TL;DR I'm pretty fine with how things are going, and happy that adventurer mode is getting constant updates.

[Miko19]

EDIT: Double post, derp.