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Author Topic: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things  (Read 1573 times)

antymattar

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Now that dwarves can go missing I think they should also go missing if knocked unconscious nobody is there to witness it. Perhaps they might remain unconscious for quite a while.

EDIT: Also, dwarves should be hidden from all menus and under the fog of war/sight limitations just like snatchers when unspotted.

Also, just so toady doesn't forget this one- If a missing dwarf meets a missing dwarf then they are still missing.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 08:08:30 am by antymattar »
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Mister Always

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 06:47:54 am »

...but we'd still be able to see them.
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antymattar

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 07:01:30 am »

No. cause they cant see

astaldaran

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 07:55:54 am »

antymatter, I think you might actually have a good idea..if a dwarf goes unconscious ad remains so for awhile (hmm I'm not sure if the game does this currently) and no one sees him then maybe the game could list him as missing.

To expand on it..make it so that any dwarf that hasn't been seen for quite awhile by other dwarves is listed as missing (like the hunting Toady mentioned). And then don't report major injuries/ falls /etc if other dwarves don't see it because they can't report back to you.  This would create situations where your miner falls into a pit and can't get out---you get a is missing flag eventually or someone gets knocked out in a fight out back the water cooler(not killed...) and is eventually named missing...and even nobles when you lock them away for awhile get titled as missing..and the populous grows nervous as the number of missing increases.

I hope Toady is making it so that vampires don't strike if you happen to be looking at them; or maybe it would be simply to make it so that the attack doesn't happen if you are looking at that z level.

It could become a good crime prevention method to put your fort on only a few levels and to have patrols walking through your fort.
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antymattar

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 08:06:28 am »

Wait... Patrols work!? Like, the dwarves actually walk around and stuff in their armor?...  ??? I really never noticed that. I'l have to try that out.

Btw, I think dwarves should no be visible if they are missing. They would be like snatchers- You cant see them.

Neonivek

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 08:08:48 am »

The only issue I have with "Dwarf unseen is missing" aspect is that right now Dwarves can go missing because they will willingly lock themselves on the wrong side of walls when building them.

Not knowing the Dwarf is trapped could be detrimental I guess...
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antymattar

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 08:14:43 am »

Well its not like they are going to go missing as soon as they are not with another dwarf.

astaldaran

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 08:15:32 am »

The only issue I have with "Dwarf unseen is missing" aspect is that right now Dwarves can go missing because they will willingly lock themselves on the wrong side of walls when building them.

Not knowing the Dwarf is trapped could be detrimental I guess...

I guess I'm not sure how this would be worse than it is now..if anything it would be better. Right not there is no message saying that your guy is trapped...you have to find that out.  You would still get the pathing errors "can't get to food" or whatever...so if anything I think this would tell you earlier 'Urist Mcmason is missing" player: Hmmm..where could he be...he was building that wall to guard against the cavern...oh there he is...sigh"
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Wayward Device

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2011, 08:31:52 am »

I lend my full support to this excellent suggestion. Unfortunately, I have nothing else meaningful to contribute, except that this would be an excellent extension of the upcoming features and something that I reckon fits quite neatly with Toady's plans for this.
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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 12:37:08 pm »

If 2 missings dwarves meet, they're still missing? Then how do you deem who's missing? What if half the fort are missing from the other half of the fort? Who's missed and who isn't? Is EVERYONE missed?
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antymattar

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 01:31:43 pm »

I think haslf of your fort would never go missing. Though it is an interesting idea. But think about it- If half of your dwarves are missing then that implies that they cant recieve any orders. It would make sense. I dont think you guys ever realized what tooady said. He said he might make people go mising if nobody saw them for a LONG time but he also said that that might be a bit too much. So no, your dudes cant go missing by simply sleeping for a long time.

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 03:10:41 pm »

I think that this is an excellent suggestion.

Perhaps when the game is deciding on where your fortress has crumbled or not the game bases it decision on whether or not you have any non-missing dwarfs left. Thus the missing dwarfs remain in your fortress until your reclaim it or visit it as an adventurer. When you visit your fortress again three things could have happened to these dwarfs:
1. They die horribly.
2. They go mad.
3. They survive.
Dwarfs of type 3 would try to explain what happened to the previous fortress. They could be recruitable, or they could decide to bugger off as soon as possible. The length of time since the fortress fell would determine what event happens to the missing dwarfs. The longer the period of time the greater chances of landing in 1 or 2.
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antymattar

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2011, 04:08:11 pm »

I think it would depend more on where they go missing. If its out in the open then yeah, they could do that but if its in the caverns then they might get lost down there for ever.

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2011, 10:39:18 pm »

I support this, definitely :3.
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ticattack

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Re: Dwarves go missing if unconcious Edit: Now with a few new things
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2011, 02:30:02 am »

Well... who is "the player" in DF? Is we some omniscient godlike entity, or are we meant to be representing the expedition leader/mayor/king/whatever?

As a (I think) simple idea:

1) Each dwarf has a timer - might be a season, a year, whatever. When that timer reaches zero, they are "missing".
2) When a dwarf sees another dwarf, the seen dwarf's timer is reset, unless the observer is also missing.
3) The ranking noble has a slightly shorter timer (say, three seasons instead of a year), but it acts differently. When his timer runs out, the "ranking noble" role switches from him to some 2IC or something.

This system, unless there are some flaws I can't see, would simulate a "chain of reporting" to some extent - the king might not have ever seen Urist McRecruit, but McRecruit has seen/been seen by McCaptain recently, McCaptain has seen/been seen by McGeneral recently, and McGeneral has seen/been seen by the king recently. The only time masses of people go missing would be if they were all walled of somewhere - which kind of makes sense.

If the King falls down a hole and dies, alone, you don't know straight away. Dwarves would continue along, being seen and unseen. When the kings shorter timer runs out, the role of "ranking noble" switches to his heir or, if there is none, to the next-highest noble. If there are no appropriate nobles, then a "crisis leader" is elected, in the same way as the expedition leader or mayor is. This shorter timer means that (a) the ranking noble has to be kept in the loop, preferably somewhere central-ish, which makes sense, and (b) you never get a situation where the baron died, and you find out just in time for half your fort to go dark.


Going off on a wild tangent - and I don't expect this bit to be implemented, it's just idle musings - suppose there were multiple "seen by" groups? If the ranking noble idea were in, that would be group 0. This is the only one the player sees. When two missing hunters meet, they become group 1. If three other dwarves, walled and lost in the caverns meet, they become group 2.

This has one good effect: when those two hunters are out wandering, and one is found by civilization, they can go "Oh, hey, the fort! Yay! Hey, I'm safe now, but Hunter McMapreadfail is still out there! I saw him by the Forests of Infinite Violence!". Bam. Group 1 gets folded into group 0. The player can now go and find the missing McMapreadfail.

The other possibility would be that, after some time, the new missing group becomes a new entity (but not a new civilization). Once off-map travel is possible, if missing dwarves can wander off screen, they could spontaneously found a new group as they settle down. Finding a lost group of survivors from a fort you played a few (in-game) decades ago would be pretty awesome. Recruiting the son of your old legendary axedwarf, and kitting him out in his father's gear? Awesome.
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