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Author Topic: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze  (Read 4424 times)

Sphalerite

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!!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« on: October 26, 2011, 08:06:14 pm »

Sunnytours is a pleasant, almost idyllic fortress.  A small aboveground building housing the trade depot and llama pasture.  A decently sized production area in the soil layer, and a modest living and dining section in deeper stone.  With a population of 29, Sunnytours supports itself with a thriving stone mug export business.

There is just one thing to keep in mind before traveling to Sunnytours.  You had best acquire a taste for dwarven wine, because that is the only thing you will ever drink there.

Sunnytours is an experimental fortress I built to test the claim that dwarves will refuse to drink if you don't give then variety of booze, and will die of thirst if no water is available.  It's a simple, small fortress, with a low population cap.  Invaders is turned off so I don't need to worry about defending it.  The only booze that is produced in Sunnytours is dwarven wine.  Initially I did this by only growing plump helmets, but later I realized that I could safely grow the other plants so long as I only permitted brewing of plump helmets in the kitchen menu.

Sunnytours does not have a well.  There are murky pools on the map, but the front door of Sunnytours is sealed with a raising drawbridge that is kept closed except to allow traders and immigrants in and out.  No booze is purchased from any of the traders, so the only thing available to drink is dwarven wine.  There's plenty of it, I queue up some more to be brewed whenever I fall below 500 units, but nothing else at all to drink.

So far, I've had the fortress running for about two years.  In that time I have had two deaths, both the results of failed strange moods.  No deaths of otherwise healthy dwarves due to thirst have occurred.

On checking the thoughts of various dwarves, I see that nearly all of them have the 'tired of drinking the same old booze lately' thought.  They're all still ecstatic due to high-quality rooms and masterwork meals and such, so it's not a problem.  The only dwarves I can find who don't have the 'tired of drinking the same old booze lately' thought are those who 'prefer to consume dwarven wine'.  Those dwarves have thoughts of 'had a wonderful drink', 'had a fine drink', 'had a pretty decent drink', 'had a truly decadent drink'.  How nice they thought the drink was seems to be randomly distributed.  Either there are hidden quality levels to drinks after all, or how much a dwarf enjoys a drink is semi-random.

I have not noticed any increase in the number of thirsty dwarves.  When a dwarf does become thirsty, he does what you'd expect - goes straight to the dwarven wine stockpile and gets a drink, regardless of whether he is tired of the same old booze or not.

When I open the front gate to let traders in, I watch carefully to see what the dwarves do.  I have yet to see a crowd of thirsty dwarves charge out to drink pond water.  I have on occasion see a dwarf with the 'give water' go out, fill a bucket with water, and then take it to a thirsty dwarf.  This seems to be a known behavior where dwarves who get thirsty while working on a job trigger another dwarf to bring them water as if they were injured in bed.  I don't think this is related to dwarves getting sick of the same old booze as I've seen it occur in fortress where every type of booze is available.

During the times the front door is open, I have watched carefully and have not seen a single dwarf go out to drink water.

I'm going to keep this fortress running a few years more, but I don't expect these results to change.



tl;dr:

1. Dwarves never prefer water or dying of thirst to booze even if they've been drinking the same old booze for years.  They get a bad thought, but go right on drinking booze. 

2. Dwarves who like a type of booze never get tired of drinking it. 

3. Dwarves get a good thought when they drink a booze they like.  How good this thought is varies, being either random or based on hidden quality levels.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 08:34:23 pm by Sphalerite »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 08:33:02 pm »

Personally, I don't think a dwarf would be so willing as too stop drinking booze altogether, but I'm wondering if there should be a control, say, a section where dwarves only drink water, and see if they would rather dehydrate. Could explain why in that other fortress they all dehydrated, if they couldn't reach the booze and instead only went for the well...

Blue_Dwarf

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 11:41:53 pm »

The only dwarves I can find who don't have the 'tired of drinking the same old booze lately' thought are those who 'prefer to consume dwarven wine'.  Those dwarves have thoughts of 'had a wonderful drink', 'had a fine drink', 'had a pretty decent drink', 'had a truly decadent drink'.  How nice they thought the drink was seems to be randomly distributed.  Either there are hidden quality levels to drinks after all, or how much a dwarf enjoys a drink is semi-random.
1) Atom-smash all existing drinks.
2) Assign brewing to all dwarves
3) Assign workshop profile to dabbling only
4) Observe thoughts, as they only drink stuff made by noob brewers
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Sphalerite

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 10:28:15 pm »

Experiment number 2:  The dwarven taste test.

The fortress has been running for 5 years now, with no drink other than dwarven wine available, and the only deaths due to thirst were of dwarves who had gone insane for non-drink-related reasons.  So it's time to test the 'hidden quality levels' idea.

For this experiment, two areas which could be sealed off by doors from the main fortress were constructed.  In each area was placed a stockpile of empty barrels, and a stockpile of plump helmets.  A still was built in each area.  I then took the fortress's best brewer, of High Master skill, and locked him in one of the experimental areas.  In the other area I locked two dwarves with no brewing skill whatsoever.  Both areas were then locked to seal them off from the main area.  The stills were set to brew on repeat.  When all the plump helmets had been brewed to wine, the three dwarves were let back into the main fortress.

I now had two piles of dwarven wine, one pile brewed by a High Master brewer, the other brewed by two Dabbling brewers.

To each brewing area I had attached a small living area, containing living quarters, dining and food for a few dwarves.  In each area I had previously stationed two dwarves who both preferred to consume dwarven wine.  These dwarves were forced to drink water long enough for any drink-related thoughts to fade, then let into the two areas with dwarven wine.  I observed the dwarves for several months, and each time any of them drank wine I checked their thoughts and recorded their latest drink-related thought.

The results were as follows:

Dwarf #1, drinking dwarven wine produced by dabbling brewers:

had a truly decadent drink lately
had a truly decadent drink lately
had a truly decadent drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a pretty decent drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a fine drink lately

Dwarf #2, drinking dwarven wine produced by dabbling brewers:

had a truly decadent drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a pretty decent drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately

Dwarf #3, drinking dwarven wine produced by a High Master brewer:

had a fine drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a pretty decent drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a pretty decent drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a pretty decent drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately

Dwarf #4, drinking dwarven wine produced by a High Master brewer:

had a fine drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a pretty decent drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a wonderful drink lately
had a fine drink lately
had a fine drink lately

The Dabbling brewer produced the following thoughts in total:

2x had a pretty decent drink lately
4x had a fine drink lately
10x had a wonderful drink lately
4x had a truly decadent drink lately
0x had a legendary drink lately

The High Master brewer produced the following thoughts in total:

4x had a pretty decent drink lately
8x had a fine drink lately
8x had a wonderful drink lately
0x had a truly decadent drink lately
0x had a legendary drink lately

As you can see, there is no significant improvement in the thoughts generated by drinking booze from a more skilled brewer.  It appears that booze does not have a hidden quality level after all.

Interestingly, none of the dwarves ever got the 'had a legendary drink lately' thought.  This may be due to the fact that Dwarven Wine only has a quality modifier of 2.  Had I conducted this experiment with Sunshine, I might have seen some Legendary Drink thoughts.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2011, 10:31:31 pm »

Well that solves it then. The other dwarves in that fortress were just incredibly loopy.

Boost One

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2011, 03:21:07 am »

This was interesting, thankyou. The wiki seems to have been updated recently on this subject as well, so no more confusion. :D
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Kogut

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 06:28:25 pm »

"being either random or based on hidden quality levels."

Memory hacking disproved theory on  hidden quality levels, according to wiki it is based on source of booze (fort [better] /foreign [worse])
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Nyxalinth

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2011, 09:47:04 am »

This was pretty interesting, thank you.  I've noticed, though, that I have had hordes of dwarves flashing thirsty if there was no water but the same old booze, and all running out to the stream/pond/lake to drink water as opposed to the same old booze.  This was several forts ago, so I am unsure what the deal was with that.  It might also have been d40.  Now I have to make a d40 fort and a 2010 fort and try your experiment and see what happens.
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Satarus

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2011, 10:09:30 am »

Does barrel quality factor into it?  How about stack size?  Try another experiment with no quality wood barrels and masterwork expensive metal barrels (gold, platinum, steel, or aluminum).
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JackoftheBox

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2011, 12:02:32 pm »

Drinking the same old booze from lead barrels must indeed produce a better drinking experience
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Sutremaine

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Re: !!science!! of drinking the same old booze
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 12:21:19 pm »

I've noticed, though, that I have had hordes of dwarves flashing thirsty if there was no water but the same old booze, and all running out to the stream/pond/lake to drink water as opposed to the same old booze.
Were there enough barrels for everyone?
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