Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic: Argument for horizontal fortresses  (Read 9109 times)

Zigzom24

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2011, 04:20:37 pm »

I prefer horizontal fortresses as well. If you want maximum efficiency, I once built a fortress a few z-levels tall, but instead of hallways, I used stairs. It was an eyesore, but it was the most efficient thing I have ever created. No wasting time going down a hall way, going down a flight of stairs, then down another hallway, just go down! But back on topic, my current fort is above ground and horizontal except for guard towers and my memorial/burial tower. I am thinking of expanding and adding another level to the jail though. The only real problems I see with horizontal fortresses above ground are you cannot engrave to increase room value, and if you have your meeting hall in the very center and later on you decide to expand, you really can't without destroying another part of your fort because it is trapped in the center. I find it incredibly easier to defend by setting up airlocks every so often throughout the halls. If you properly plan and set things up, it can be just as efficient as a vertical without sacrificing aesthetics.

I build the most work inefficient fortresses you can find, short of a constantly changing bridge labyrinth run by pressure plates.*
*I am so going to do that now lol
Anyways, what I mean is, bedrooms are low priority, they go wherever I think is convenient. There are usually 4 main stairwells, N,S,E,W respectively, and these are all equally spaced from a point in the centre, where upon embarking I built the first building of the map EVAR (usually the centre of a farm plot of downward stairway).

I also tend to make defending my fortress extremely fun, i.e. it's extremely easy to defend. And this goes both ways, so I end up having goblins, minatours and what have you infesting parts of my fortress whilst I hold the upper ground. Aaaaand it's incredibly easy to get dwarves straggling outside slaughtered :d. Plus above ground forts are susceptible to buzzards and vultures, whilst not a threat, job spam gets very annoying very quickly.
*Edit, fixed typo

I mentioned how I like to airlock off parts of my fortress. Well sometimes a tiny war elephant siege or two just happen to get in before I can seal off the main part, and then every dwarf in that section either fights or gets slaughtered, which is actually how I decided who my militia captains would be! And it also very convenient how I just happen to randomly manufacture a large amount of coffins right before a "malfunction" with the airlock system. In another fort I had I set up the airlocks and put a magma reservoir above it and I had a kitten thrown in a pressure plate room where the right combination would flood a rather large part of the fortress. For added fun, you could try that but start with two cats. One male. One female.

*Edit: I actually forgot to put anything relevant to the topic. I really don't see why people are so against horizontal fortresses, they have fantastic Fun potential! That way you also get to see magnificent trails of blood in their entirety as opposed to spread out over a few levels.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 04:22:22 pm by Zigzom24 »
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2011, 04:34:30 pm »

I have nothing against vertical fortresses, it's just I'm comepletely mad, and refuse to dig too deep (generally I don't dig much at all either) for fear of breaching the caverns.

And I have the best luck with caverns. Or I could just build up, but that takes time when your fortress dimensions are around 7/10's of the map >_>

Organum

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2011, 04:36:03 pm »

I tend to have vertical fortresses just because it's easier to plan. Even when I try for a horizontal fort, I end up reverting back to vertical because I accidentally box myself in.
Logged
If dwarves decided to live in trees like hippies, they'd still do it better than the elves.

Kogut

  • Bay Watcher
  • Next account: Bulwersator
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2011, 04:45:02 pm »

Also for some reason, my butchers refuse to butcher their corpses.
You should enable gathering refuse from outside.
Logged
The worst bug - 34.11 poll
Tired of going decades without goblin sieges? Try The Fortress Defense Mod
Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum. Every posts he makes he preaches about the evil of Bugs.

wypie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2011, 04:57:28 pm »

Im addicted to aboveground fortress aswell the only real mining I do is quarrying........ we need TNT........ Ok back on topic aboveground fortresses are cool especially when there done and you use stonesense.
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2011, 05:06:40 pm »

Also for some reason, my butchers refuse to butcher their corpses.
You should enable gathering refuse from outside.
I solved that problem a while ago, though now I only really have goblin corpses to pick up

Aquillion

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2011, 10:00:56 am »

I like vertical (but not too vertical) for a few reasons:

I find that 3D areas are cooler to picture in my head, especially when I'm building around a volcano or cave or some other interesting feature (which forces me to build in odd ways, making it more interesting.)

3D areas also give you less pressure about wasting space, since you can make easily-accessible expansions almost everywhere.

Also, I find it makes it easier for me to manage my fortress if I deliberately devote each floor to a certain sort of thing -- dining floor, work floor, storage floor, etc.

The biggest drawback I find to a vertical fortress is that defenses are often harder to do, since stairs are tougher to work with as chokepoints, and it's always tempting to add staircases everywhere -- eliminating chokepoints completely.  Also, when a fight happens, it's often on your central staircase, making it harder to track what's going on.
Logged
We don't want another cheap fantasy universe, we want a cheap fantasy universe generator. --Toady One

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2011, 10:11:31 am »

I like vertical (but not too vertical) for a few reasons:

I find that 3D areas are cooler to picture in my head, especially when I'm building around a volcano or cave or some other interesting feature (which forces me to build in odd ways, making it more interesting.)

3D areas also give you less pressure about wasting space, since you can make easily-accessible expansions almost everywhere.

Also, I find it makes it easier for me to manage my fortress if I deliberately devote each floor to a certain sort of thing -- dining floor, work floor, storage floor, etc.

The biggest drawback I find to a vertical fortress is that defenses are often harder to do, since stairs are tougher to work with as chokepoints, and it's always tempting to add staircases everywhere -- eliminating chokepoints completely.  Also, when a fight happens, it's often on your central staircase, making it harder to track what's going on.

Don't forget architectural defences work both ways :S

zehive

  • Bay Watcher
  • [DRAGONFIREBREATH]
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2011, 01:15:33 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Example of an olde fortress from many saves ago. All horizontal, save for the nobles rooms on the level underneath. This was around year 14.

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2011, 01:16:57 pm »

You really went all out with the whole horizontal thing ;P

Malarauko

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2011, 03:34:03 pm »

I always have one huge central stairway with my fortress sprawling off from it.
Logged
Dwarf Fortress - Losing is fun.

Triaxx2

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2011, 09:13:09 pm »

@zehive: What's with the hallway of doors?
Logged

zehive

  • Bay Watcher
  • [DRAGONFIREBREATH]
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2011, 12:43:30 am »

@zehive: What's with the hallway of doors?
leads to the danger room. It's restricted passage and all are pet sealed. I got tired of puppies and kittens and children going in and getting brain injury and then death.

In any other fort thats totally fine. But when animals or children die in there, the spears being raised and retracted causes job item misplaced spam until it goes miasmic and rots away.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 12:48:05 am by zehive »
Logged

Aquillion

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2011, 04:16:39 am »

Don't forget architectural defences work both ways :S
Sometimes.  Traps tend to hurt enemies more than you, especially if they're cage traps (so any misfires caused by someone passing out on one can be corrected.)

But overall, when it comes to defense and handling emergencies, chokepoints help the player more than they hurt, since they let you easily contain problems -- both monsters and rampaging dwarves.  Not being able to do this frequently leads to a tantrum spiral.

The real disadvantage to chokepoints is -- obviously -- that they're chokepoints, and slow everything in your fortress down as people squeeze through them.
Logged
We don't want another cheap fantasy universe, we want a cheap fantasy universe generator. --Toady One

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Argument for horizontal fortresses
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2011, 05:18:07 am »

Don't forget architectural defences work both ways :S
Sometimes.  Traps tend to hurt enemies more than you, especially if they're cage traps (so any misfires caused by someone passing out on one can be corrected.)

But overall, when it comes to defense and handling emergencies, chokepoints help the player more than they hurt, since they let you easily contain problems -- both monsters and rampaging dwarves.  Not being able to do this frequently leads to a tantrum spiral.

The real disadvantage to chokepoints is -- obviously -- that they're chokepoints, and slow everything in your fortress down as people squeeze through them.

In an experiment, I breached the caverns and left all of my prisoners free. One of the prisoners was a minatour, which proceeded to arm itself and kill everything that tried to get past it.

Defences. Work. Both ways.
*Not traps of course ;P
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4