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Author Topic: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic  (Read 227321 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #450 on: October 26, 2011, 02:50:01 pm »

They don't react to the egg hatching.
Point.

I never did think the hatching of the egg was supposed to be anything more than magic trick-level stuff. Then again, I don't think the hatchling would always be given to the one who hatched it, Twilight was probably a special case, being immediately chosen to be Celestia's personal protégé. It's logical that Celestia would want to keep tabs on her student who, in addition, seemed to be fitting the role for the Spirit of Magic.
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LordBucket

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #451 on: October 26, 2011, 02:56:21 pm »

One could argue that they had slightly more pressing concerns.

Five seconds later they did, yes. It doesn't make sense to suggest that they would be too distracted by what's going on at T+05 to react to what happened at T-0.

People blindly asserted that Twilight hatching the egg was some rare and unusual event. There is no indication of that. There is every indication that using dragon eggs to test students applying at Celestia's school is a standard yawn-worthy affair of no special significance.



TheBronzePickle

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #453 on: October 26, 2011, 03:09:37 pm »

Well, since it's obvious that they have magic students pass an entrance exam, and this entrance exam can include having to hatch a dragon's egg using magic, then why haven't we seen a few more familiars running around with unicorns? It's not like we haven't seen at least a small portion of the magically-adept citizens of Equestria unless you want to count out the background characters. One would presume that Twilight wouldn't be the only person with a little slave?

Even if they were more common, if Spike's any indication the person who hatched the familiar is expected to raise and take care of it. Even if the relationship looks nothing like a maternal or paternal relationship, the master is still taking care of the familiar. It's not slavery.
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LordBucket

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #454 on: October 26, 2011, 03:10:31 pm »

I don't think the hatchling would always be given to the one who hatched it

So are you nitpicking with an assertion that it's unsual that Twilight kept Spike, and therefore child slavery is a exception rather than standard practice, but that child kidnapping is standard, and that's why they had the egg in the first place?

 * Unicorns are using dragon eggs to test students
 * On at least one occassion, the baby dragon, once hatched, was kept by the student
 * When the mane cast went to go visit a dragon, they did not take Spike with them

1) Where did they get the egg from, and why was it not returned?

2) If there was some strange, once in a lifetime circumstance that led to unicorns getting a dragon egg through totally innocent means, why did they use it to test Twilight, why was she allowed/ordered/tasked with keeping him, and why was he told to stay at home in the Dragonshy episode, when they had the opportunity to return him to his kind, or the very least establish some sort of communication about it?

These questions aren't answered in the episode. But the questions that are answered are:

1) Do unicorns have at least one dragon egg with no reason given as to why they have it?

Yes.

2) Was that egg kept rather than returned?

Yes.

3) Have we observed a baby dragon being kept by a unicorn and used for menial labor?

Yes.

4) Has there been specific opportunity to establish contact with dragon-kind about Spike, and to possibly return him?

Yes.

5) Did they?

No.

Why?


LordBucket

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #455 on: October 26, 2011, 03:16:27 pm »

why haven't we seen a few more familiars running around with unicorns?

Because the egg-hatching is the exam test for one particular school: Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns. Not every unicorn attends the princess's private magic school.

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the master is still taking care of the familiar. It's not slavery.

So if I kidnap your baby and task him with menial labor...but take good care of him, that's not slavery?

Dsarker

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #456 on: October 26, 2011, 03:19:57 pm »

why haven't we seen a few more familiars running around with unicorns?

Because the egg-hatching is the exam test for one particular school: Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns. Not every unicorn attends the princess's private magic school.
So you're saying it's not the usual test? Okay.

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the master is still taking care of the familiar. It's not slavery.

So if I kidnap your baby and task him with menial labor...but take good care of him, that's not slavery?

No, when from what we can see the other dragons would prefer to eat him rather than care for him.
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TheBronzePickle

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #457 on: October 26, 2011, 03:23:59 pm »

Because the egg-hatching is the exam test for one particular school: Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns. Not every unicorn attends the princess's private magic school.

Yes, but we can't just assume that Twilight's the only one, and you'd think we'd have at least seen one or two other unicorns who went to the same school.

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So if I kidnap your baby and task him with menial labor...but take good care of him, that's not slavery?

You don't exactly have proof that the baby was kidnapped. Even if they are, though, the students probably don't know that.

As for taking care of someone and having them perform menial labor for you, don't most parents do that in the form of chores? It might not necessarily be the kind of menial work that Spike does, but there are a number of children that have to do even more menial work than he does.

And ninja'd.
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LordBucket

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #458 on: October 26, 2011, 03:32:14 pm »

but we can't just assume that Twilight's the only one

I'm not assuming she's the only one. That's the whole point here. It's the people saying that the egg hatching was some rare and unique event who are saying she's the only one.

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and you'd think we'd have at least seen one or two
other unicorns who went to the same school.

Why? That school is in Canterlot. The series takes place in Ponyville. And since it's Celestia's private school, presumably it's a fairly select bunch who get to go there.

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You don't exactly have proof that the baby was kidnapped.

Answer my questions. Where did the egg come from? Why wasn't it returned? Why wasn't Spike returned after he was hatched? Why was Spike told to stay at home when they specifically went to go talk to a dragon?

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As for taking care of someone and having them perform menial labor for you, don't most parents do that in the form of chores?

Your own children, maybe. Not somebody else's. Spike is obviously not Twilight's son.


TheBronzePickle

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #459 on: October 26, 2011, 03:37:03 pm »

The series takes place in Ponyville, but it's not like they stayed there for the whole series. They've been in Canterlot for the Grand Galloping Gala, and one would have expected to see at least a few graduates from such a prestigious school there, yet the only non-pony life we see at all lives in the garden.

As for the egg, I can't answer that, and you know it. But that doesn't give you the right to claim it was kidnapped, and even if it was, the fault for that would be with the test orchestrators, while the slavery issue would be with the person raising the hatchling.

Have you ever heard of adoptive parents? They give chores too.
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Dsarker

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #460 on: October 26, 2011, 03:37:35 pm »

I don't think the hatchling would always be given to the one who hatched it

So are you nitpicking with an assertion that it's unsual that Twilight kept Spike, and therefore child slavery is a exception rather than standard practice, but that child kidnapping is standard, and that's why they had the egg in the first place?

 * Unicorns are using dragon eggs to test students
 * On at least one occassion, the baby dragon, once hatched, was kept by the student
 * When the mane cast went to go visit a dragon, they did not take Spike with them

Let's take it from here.

1. To test student, not students. We should have seen a lot more dragons than we have if it's standard.
2. On at least one occasion the baby dragon was hatched AT ALL.
3. Remember episode 24? Yup, Spike and that dragon got along real well.
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1) Where did they get the egg from, and why was it not returned?
We don't know. Maybe the mother had died. Maybe the mother didn't care. Maybe the mother put it up for adoption, as it were.

If we want to say ponies are the replacement for humans....well, could be a half-dragon.


Quote
2) If there was some strange, once in a lifetime circumstance that led to unicorns getting a dragon egg through totally innocent means, why did they use it to test Twilight, why was she allowed/ordered/tasked with keeping him, and why was he told to stay at home in the Dragonshy episode, when they had the opportunity to return him to his kind, or the very least establish some sort of communication about it?

Presumably because Spike didn't want to leave Twilight. Oh, and let's not forget - the dragon was planning to sleep. He/she doesn't want to take care of Spike.

Hmm, there's another thought. There are no female dragons in the series. Maybe there aren't any females and eggs just spontaneously generate.
Quote
These questions aren't answered in the episode. But the questions that are answered are:

1) Do unicorns have at least one dragon egg with no reason given as to why they have it?

Yes.

2) Was that egg kept rather than returned?

Yes.

3) Have we observed a baby dragon being kept by a unicorn and used for menial labor?

Yes.

4) Has there been specific opportunity to establish contact with dragon-kind about Spike, and to possibly return him?

Yes.

5) Did they?

No.

Why?

because the other dragon tried to eat him.
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LordBucket

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #461 on: October 26, 2011, 03:53:15 pm »

They've been in Canterlot for the Grand Galloping Gala, and one would have expected to see at least a few graduates from such a prestigious school there

Spike didn't go. Why assume that other students would bring their familiar? And Spike also didn't go when they went to Canterlot in The Return of Harmony.
   
You don't take your slaves with you to the palace.

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As for the egg, I can't answer that, and you know it.

Yes, I do. But I can. All of those unanswered questions all suddenly make complete sense if it's general policy for Celestia to arrange for the "procurement" of dragon eggs to test her students and for those students to keep them as familiars if they pass.

That explanation fits all the evidence.

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the fault for that would be with the test orchestrators, while the
slavery issue would be with the person raising the hatchling.

Well, it's Celestia's school. Presumably she's the one who sets policy.

Dsarker

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #462 on: October 26, 2011, 03:58:07 pm »

LordBucket, mind responding to my points?
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Zangi

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #463 on: October 26, 2011, 04:00:12 pm »

What about guardians?  In case of child labor?

There are 2 theories of how the school comes upon the eggs, outright stealing it from dragons or some sort of flexible treaty, allowing ponies to 'take the burden of raising the baby dragons to age'. 
Like an orphanage!  Rainbow Dash level parenting, but on a cultural level!
Dragon culture is probably very different from ponies.  Ain't about the sunshine, rainbows and sugar high.  I'd say is about gems, gold and tasty meatgems.

Neither camp is wrong as there is no strong evidence swinging it either way.


but we can't just assume that Twilight's the only one

I'm not assuming she's the only one. That's the whole point here. It's the people saying that the egg hatching was some rare and unique event who are saying she's the only one.

Quote
and you'd think we'd have at least seen one or two
other unicorns who went to the same school.

Why? That school is in Canterlot. The series takes place in Ponyville. And since it's Celestia's private school, presumably it's a fairly select bunch who get to go there.
+1 to you and your 'I make sense posts'
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Dsarker

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Re: My Little Pony, Friendship Is Magic
« Reply #464 on: October 26, 2011, 04:07:28 pm »

What about guardians?  In case of child labor?

There are 2 theories of how the school comes upon the eggs, outright stealing it from dragons or some sort of flexible treaty, allowing ponies to 'take the burden of raising the baby dragons to age'. 
Like an orphanage!  Rainbow Dash level parenting, but on a cultural level!
Dragon culture is probably very different from ponies.  Ain't about the sunshine, rainbows and sugar high.  I'd say is about gems, gold and tasty meatgems.

Neither camp is wrong as there is no strong evidence swinging it either way.


but we can't just assume that Twilight's the only one

I'm not assuming she's the only one. That's the whole point here. It's the people saying that the egg hatching was some rare and unique event who are saying she's the only one.

Quote
and you'd think we'd have at least seen one or two
other unicorns who went to the same school.

Why? That school is in Canterlot. The series takes place in Ponyville. And since it's Celestia's private school, presumably it's a fairly select bunch who get to go there.
+1 to you and your 'I make sense posts'
Or dragons don't care enough about their children that they abandon their eggs.
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Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."
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