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[lordnincompoop]

Extend

- 4 -

Urist Imiknorris, Ottofar, Simple, Think0028

The Day has been extended to Wednesday, 9PM GMT.

There are no possible Extensions remaining.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Imik, any particular reason to extend?

It was getting close to the end of the day and Simple hadn't shown up to defend himself. Also I wanted to hear both Native's and McArathos' suspicions, as well as why they aren't voting. Native's already answered, but McArathos probably won't be online in the next two hours.

Do you really think anything's going to get done by extending the day?

I had no idea at the time. Now that TB's been replaced, yes I do.

[Simple]

...

I didn't say nothing you could say would make me reconsider. Indeed, I took all the things you said there into account.
Its just that that post specifically was 100% pure bullshit, which I did not want to spend my time refuting, given that the flaws were so glaring.

And if this post is so full of holes isn't it making it easier for you ?

What, you want praise for being Obvscum? Yes, yes, thank you. You've made it very easy for me.

So what stops you from pursuing the easy obvscum some more ?

Jack AT:Ah,maybe i worded it wrong there.What i meant was that his initial argument must be based entirely on that fact. And building a case on such flimsy base is at least careless. If he got anything aside from his crazy theory at that point his case would make more sense.

Quite the backtrack you got going on there. You said that I based my case on something I earlier said was a lie. You really need to learn to express yourself better if that isn't what you meant.

Yeah unfortunately that part is true.

Why i think there's probably no mundane killers? First of all i think that main game theme is supernatural threat,

You think. Your opinion is valid, but it is not fact, and you can't dismiss arguments based on it. Certainly your opinion is fairly baseless, given this game's closed setup, and the fact that the last game did contain a mundane threat (albeit a minor one); the potential for your opinion to be wrong is significant.

second last game we had none

You know, the nested quote that was in there with this line directly contradicts it: There was a mundane killer, a vig, last game. Just some guy with an axe.

third : i belive mundane roles are used as "supportive or wifom-bringers" characters and killers don't fit into that category.

You have no basis for this opinion whatsoever. It is even more baseless than your 'supernatural threat' opinion.

There is possibility of natural killers but i think it's not as high as magical ones.

Backtracking~
Earlier you said that the probability of mundane killers was 'beyond logic' in its lowness.
'not as high' doesn't quite have the same ring to it, you know?

Let's see i was saying your explanation of me being sk was illogical not the appearance of SKs. And for magical-nonmagical ratio why should i give up my baseless theory for your baseless theory ? From what information i have it's what seems more likely to me it's not something that i can get a proof of.

You're basically saying "we don't know if there are natural threats or not, so you should stop looking for them," which I think we can all agree is a crock of shit.

We have no proof of either so why my opinion is more confusing than Nuke's ?

Because:
Me: There could be natural threats, or there could not. Either way, there's no harm in looking for them
You: There could be natural threats, or there could not. Seeing as we aren't sure, we shouldn't look for them.

Nope. I never said we shouldn't completely omit them just that again that theory with a imo low chance of natural killers were rather silly.

All about him in my pm condenses to : my brother is named Anthony Engleford and died recently. Nothing more, no mentions about the previous game and my guy doesn't look like he even knows about it.

Tch. This changes every time you mention it. A while back, you weren't even sure if he was your brother.

Where... ?

And flavor theories with nothing to back them up are not valid counterpoint.

I think you'll find that my flavour theories are only the beginning of my case. See how I didn't vote you until two posts in? That's because flavour theories alone weren't enough. The bullshit you brought up in your defence, the blatant untruths and the shitty reasoning- that is what convinced me that my flavour theories had struck the nail on the head, allowing me to vote you with confidence.

That's actually alright.Except the part about me lying.

...

It seemed to me that part of your reason for not accepting the possibility of a mundane SK was that you didn't believe there would be mundane killing roles. As for your reasons:

1) Doesn't mean there can't be a regular killer
2) Doesn't mean there can't be a regular killer - also BS, because vig
3) Based on what?

There is possibility of natural killers but i think it's not as high as magical ones. And why are you so intent on pointing out the wincon ?

Ahem:

Last time it was two magical creatures and the supernatural elements seemed to be center of the plot. Why this game should be that different ?

I like your old story better than your new one, especially considering that the only thing that caused you to change it is pressure. As for the wincon, I'm working under the assumption that "magical entities" and "killers" aren't mutually inclusive, because if they were there would be no reason to list them separately, thus explicitly allowing for possible mundane killers. This is Mafia - no possibility should be ignored, and you were trying pretty hard to convince the town to ignore a possibility.

I don't see the difference between these two. Unless you want to take everything i say literally. So let me get it straight: i'm not convinced that there is murdering wizard, soulcatching golem and axeman vig. And tell me something. At what point i suggested that we should ignore them ? Seriously everything up to this point is me struggling to tell you that Nuke's plot is not very likely.

That's the joke. He says that if I'm convinced sk's exist it's a scumtell. Somehow, him doing the same is not. What lynch ?

a) I thought his reasoning was more along the lines of you are a SK  -> of course you'd be sure there were SK

This way you can get a nice long list of things that fit town if they are scum.

b) At the time I voted you, you had four votes (Dariush, Jack, NUKE, and Ottofar) and were flailing (rather desperately) for any way out of getting lynched.

Finally, who do you currently suspect, and why aren't you voting for them?

You for sudden change of heart. ECrown for lurkiness and strange flavor claim. Slightly Time Blossom/Vector since it seems strange that someone closely tied to the church know nothing more about witchhunt or the bells. At least from rumors. And i'm voting actually.

Something more and claim later.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I don't see the difference between these two. Unless you want to take everything i say literally.

Story 2: There could be mundane anti-town roles
Story 1: Why would there be mundane anti-town roles?

So let me get it straight: i'm not convinced that there is murdering wizard, soulcatching golem and axeman vig.

Who said anything about this game having the same setup as the last one? Oh wait, that was you:

Last time it was two magical creatures and the supernatural elements seemed to be center of the plot. Why this game should be that different ?

I will agree with you that the supernatural is probably the main theme, but that does not mean that LNCP can't have thrown in a mundane killer.

And tell me something. At what point i suggested that we should ignore them ? Seriously everything up to this point is me struggling to tell you that Nuke's plot is not very likely.

By suggesting that they probably don't exist, you're implying rather strongly that we shouldn't be looking that hard for them.

a) I thought his reasoning was more along the lines of "you are a SK"  -> "of course you'd be sure there were SK"

This way you can get a nice long list of things that fit town if they are scum.

Wait what? What are you trying to say? I'm actually confused here.

You for sudden change of heart. ECrown for lurkiness and strange flavor claim. Slightly Time Blossom/Vector since it seems strange that someone closely tied to the church know nothing more about witchhunt or the bells. At least from rumors. And i'm voting actually.

What change of heart? My vote on NUKE was to pressure him into answering my question, which I've written off as a lost cause. Why aren't you questioning your suspects? And I know you're voting - but your vote on ECrown is your original randomvote.

Something more and claim later.

I'll be waiting.

[Ottofar]

Cough cough.
Unvote Imik.

[NUKE9.13]

Woosh.

Because pointing out that that's also blatantly ignoring stuff is totally confusing.

It is not 'also' blatantly ignoring stuff. The blatant ignoring for which you originally attacked me is that same blatant ignoring. There is only one instance of blatant ignoring.
I mentioned this before. But you evidently don't like reading, so I can understand how you missed it.

You: Continue not to actual respond to my responses, instead insisiting that I am ignoring people (having previously insisted that I insisted my opinion was correct without responding to others). The hypocrisy is thick enough to build houses out of.

Because quoting your question and responding to them is totally not responding to them.

You haven't done that for the majority of my questions/statements. My first reply you responded to with an irrellevant quote. My second reply you responded to with one response about logic, and saying you were confused. You have certainly responded to much of my previous reply, but there's nothing stopping you from also responding to the things that you, say, didn't respond to when you were 'confused'.

NUKE's being stupid. I'd ask him a question, but he'd probably just ignore it.

Why would you insult me like this. Do you really think I won't answer?

This still doesn't make any sense. Explain to me how in the offending post he's denying the existence of a serial killer.

I think only if we got literal SK in here this would make any sense.

And my case evidently does not make any sense; indeed, it is 'beyond logic'.
However, if we had a 'literal SK', it would. Therefore, we don't. I read literal SK as someone with the wincon 'kill everyone' and a NK with which to do so. Simple claims to have meant a non supernatural SK. Well, my mistake, but it isn't such a large mistake that it invalidates my entire (or even large segments of) my case.

So what stops you from pursuing the easy obvscum some more ?

I don't need to pursue you more. Once I have proven to myself that you are a SK, and convinced others that I am correct, I don't need to pursue you any more.

Yeah unfortunately that part is true.

Great, thanks.

Let's see i was saying your explanation of me being sk was illogical not the appearance of SKs.

Lies, damned lies, and heresies. See above in my reply to Jim.

And for magical-nonmagical ratio why should i give up my baseless theory for your baseless theory ? From what information i have it's what seems more likely to me it's not something that i can get a proof of.

Yeah, yeah, fine. Keep your theory. But without evidence supporting it, not to mention evidence detracting from it, it isn't worth anything.

You: There could be natural threats, or there could not. Seeing as we aren't sure, we shouldn't look for them.

Nope. I never said we shouldn't completely omit them just that again that theory with a imo low chance of natural killers were rather silly.

You realise that you are not contradicting what I say there.

Tch. This changes every time you mention it. A while back, you weren't even sure if he was your brother.

Where... ?

Ah... looking back, you didn't say that. Sorry. I withdraw that statement.

That's actually alright.Except the part about me lying.

...fantastic, my case is acknowledged by the suspect himself. Well, I am always in favour of going out with dignity.

Something more and claim later.

Looking forward to it.


Time Blossom: Sad to see you go. You looked like fun.

Vector: Do you agree with your predecessor's vote on me?

Cough cough.
Unvote Imik.

Hey. You are not Org. Stop pretending to be.

[Powder Miner]

Nuke, it just might be the facts that A. there were no questions in the block of text B. It was a different post. C. It was arguing on the same side as me. and D. I thought you were referring to a different post.

[Jim Groovester]

Time Blossom is currently in the process of being replaced.

Well, then.

Unvote.

This still doesn't make any sense. Explain to me how in the offending post he's denying the existence of a serial killer.

I think only if we got literal SK in here this would make any sense.

And my case evidently does not make any sense; indeed, it is 'beyond logic'.
However, if we had a 'literal SK', it would. Therefore, we don't. I read literal SK as someone with the wincon 'kill everyone' and a NK with which to do so. Simple claims to have meant a non supernatural SK. Well, my mistake, but it isn't such a large mistake that it invalidates my entire (or even large segments of) my case.

Then what the fuck are you doing rushing forward on a case when you don't know exactly what somebody is talking about?

Whatever, you're being dumb as fuck. I'm not going to waste any more time trying to figure out if there's anything worthwhile in what you're saying because pattern has shown that no, there isn't.

Imiknorris, you missed my questions.

[Vector]

Unvote whoever I'm voting.

That's probably Nuke, I guess?  Whatever, I don't have time to reread right now--I've got an exam tomorrow.  I'll try to do a skimthrough soonish, but no promises.

[Urist Imiknorris]

My point being, Simple defending himself is perfectly warranted in this situation. How is this a reason to vote for him?

Defending himself is warranted in his situation. Bullshit and backpedaling aren't. As I said when I voted him:

It's interesting that you're questioning NUKE for not believing in SKs, despite the fact that he said nothing of the sort (the exact opposite even - he accused you of being one). You're making things up to get out of a lynch, Simple, and that's not good.

For the backpedaling, he began by saying that the presence of a "literal SK" would be "too far past logical reasoning to be of any use." Then he changed his story to "There is probably a killing role out there, but i don't believe it would be a "crazy guy with a knife" kind of SK." Then he changed it to "I think that magical killers are most probable." Basically, every time he's called on his disbelief in mundane killers, he changes his story to make them more plausible and insists that's what he always meant.


Also:

I don't see the difference between these two. Unless you want to take everything i say literally.

Story 2: There could be mundane anti-town roles
Story 1: Why would there be mundane anti-town roles?

Referencing these two quotes of his:

Last time it was two magical creatures and the supernatural elements seemed to be center of the plot. Why this game should be that different ?

There is possibility of natural killers but i think it's not as high as magical ones.

[Jack A T]

Simple: My questions.  You missed them.

I've been excessively busy lately.  Sorry about the general lower activity.  It's the end of the first term of the school year for me, so I've got tests and such.

[Think0028]

Hmm. NUKE, I think you're right when you say I'm just calling you a tunnelling asshole. Unvote. I don't have anything beyond what I've said already on you.

Simple: Do you actually suspect ECrownofFire, or is it just an RVS vote you haven't moved? Who do you suspect?

ECrownofFire: You haven't had much to contribute, beyond quite a few side comments. Your most recent post, your first content one in quite a few posts, has you voting Simple for reasons that are mostly already stated, along with some terms to add legitimacy to your attacks. How is RIA something that town would do? Isn't the whole point of that a scum being insane to avoid suspicion? How is a question about a church-goer knowing something about the church role-fishing? Can you flesh out your argument against Simple at all?

[ECrownofFire]

Hmm. NUKE, I think you're right when you say I'm just calling you a tunnelling asshole. Unvote. I don't have anything beyond what I've said already on you.

Simple: Do you actually suspect ECrownofFire, or is it just an RVS vote you haven't moved? Who do you suspect?

ECrownofFire: You haven't had much to contribute, beyond quite a few side comments. Your most recent post, your first content one in quite a few posts, has you voting Simple for reasons that are mostly already stated, along with some terms to add legitimacy to your attacks. How is RIA something that town would do? Isn't the whole point of that a scum being insane to avoid suspicion? How is a question about a church-goer knowing something about the church role-fishing? Can you flesh out your argument against Simple at all?

Well, the RIA could be somewhat unintentional, or just a townie avoiding being voted. RIA was referring to NUKE anyway, not Simple.

Presumably, a church-goer would know something about the bells, as you've just now said.. And seeing as a role may or may not involve that...

[Urist_McArathos]

Right now I'm most suspicious of Ottofar and EcrownofFire.  The former for his short replies, poorly reasoned vote, and refusal to contribute more.  The latter because he's been quiet and I have a sneaking feeling about what he's claimed so far.  I still want to know why "feeling the weather" is so crucial to him he'd walk around half naked, when most people can tell the weather just fine fully dressed.

Not voting because: NUKE is being NUKE as usual, so no scum vibes there; Simple, I'm not convinced he's scum; Ecrown, my thoughts on him are too weak to justify a vote; Ottofar, I want to vote, but between the games of his I've read and Toaster's comment, this really does seem like normal D1 behavior for him.

[Dariush]

Not voting because: NUKE is being NUKE as usual, so no scum vibes there; Simple, I'm not convinced he's scum; Ecrown, my thoughts on him are too weak to justify a vote; Ottofar, I want to vote, but between the games of his I've read and Toaster's comment, this really does seem like normal D1 behavior for him.

A bunch of noncommittal shit. What would you consider 'scum vibes' from Nuke?