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[Jim Groovester]

Since there are two scum among you three, making a forced mislynch a possibility, I was going to make a bold suggestion: that you three "circle vote" each other (Shake votes Shoes, who votes Shark, who votes Shake, for example), leaving the game deciding votes to the confirmed town, Andrew and myself, and then we would wait to see who slipped up.  Since this is a tactic I've never seen used before, I had no idea how well it work, and so I was reluctant to suggestst it.

Until everybody has a good idea of what they're doing they should only be voting the people they suspect. The tactic you're suggesting would be beyond the scope of a Beginner's Mafia.

(It's also not that great of an idea anyway. Ignoring problems where people aren't making statements about who they suspect and making themselves readable by doing that, which are huge problems, nobody would go along with it anyway because everybody would rather have their vote where they want it.)

[Shakerag]

Andrew: I suppose that for the purposes of today, revealing that he was a cop was a good idea.
...
Remalle:

This second night I investigated Remalle. He is also townie.

wat

Okay, I know this is only my second Beginner's Mafia.  And both of the games I've been in I've subbed in.  And I'm sure I'm no expert at this game, and certainly not one to talk, but ...

ShoesandHats, are you fucking stupid or what?


When I first subbed in, my gut feeling was to lynch Shoes.  And as I said before, any other non-LYLO/MYLO day I would have voted him straight away.  But this is just ... I can't *not* vote him after this.  He never addressed any of the points in my first post ... or any subsequent post, for that matter.  Or, you know, most of the points in the rest of the entire goddamn game. 

Do you think Andrew was lying about the cop claim?  Do you think Remalle is a godfather?  Do you even think about which name you're going to put in red text and why?

Why the hell would you ever reveal that your a cop? Now the scum are going to nightkill you for sure. Name some reasons why you would do that.

What is this shit?  Do you even understand what LYLO is?  For that matter, do you even understand now why that would be a good idea?

I don't know why I'm even bothering, since this is just going to be yet another post that Shoes will ignore.  He's been digging his own hole this entire game, and unless he can post something that knocks my motherfucking socks off, I don't think he's getting out of it.

[ShoesandHats]

First of all, I already noticed that. Do you really need to point it out twice? Also, you'll noticed that I said that it could just be a scum tactic of trying to call out his partner without arousing much suspicion.

Why the hell would you ever reveal that your a cop? Now the scum are going to nightkill you for sure. Name some reasons why you would do that.

What is this shit?  Do you even understand what LYLO is?  For that matter, do you even understand now why that would be a good idea?

You should also know that this is my first time playing mafia. You're more experienced than me.

[Shakerag]

First of all, I already noticed that. Do you really need to point it out twice? Also, you'll noticed that I said that it could just be a scum tactic of trying to call out his partner without arousing much suspicion.

Then maybe you need to need to detail out your reasoning a little more if you're going to do something that seems logically inconsistent.

You should also know that this is my first time playing mafia. You're more experienced than me.

1) Given the title of this game, I think we could all have safely assumed that.
2) Read the part in my last post above the big fucking text. 

Maybe you'd like to go back over the last couple dozen posts now and address the parts where your name is in bold?

[Think0028]

Votecount:

Shoesandhats [4] - Shark, andrew425, Remalle, Shakerag
Remalle [1] - Shoesandhats

Day ends Tuesday, 9:00 PM!

[Shark]

Shakerag's looking a bit shifty. After a ton of warnings of voting shoes, he finally does it in OVERLY LARGE TEXT FOR EMPHASIS(someone cares about their image). You also finally change your vote to shoes, after we already have a majority vote, despite all your warnings.

You're not helping your case at all. I honestly think you're his scumpartner atm.

[Shakerag]

Shakerag's looking a bit shifty. After a ton of warnings of voting shoes, he finally does it in OVERLY LARGE TEXT FOR EMPHASIS(someone cares about their image). You also finally change your vote to shoes, after we already have a majority vote, despite all your warnings.

You're not helping your case at all. I honestly think you're his scumpartner atm.

What's up, kettle?

And anyway, I stated my reasons for voting Shoes clearly, if not a bit emphatically.  Also, this:

It's not a bandwagon if you back up your vote with good reasons.

In general, you shouldn't be worried about doing something that may look suspect like you said you were- if your reasoning behind doing something (like voting someone with several votes already) is solid, then it's a perfectly valid action.

So ... Remalle:  What are your thoughts on Shark's D3 posting?  Does he come across as town as strongly today as D1/D2, or do you think he could be bussing his partner (Shoes) and trying to set me up for D4?  Or something else entirely?

[Remalle]

So ... Remalle:  What are your thoughts on Shark's D3 posting?  Does he come across as town as strongly today as D1/D2, or do you think he could be bussing his partner (Shoes) and trying to set me up for D4?  Or something else entirely?

Sorry I took so long to respond.  I've been having connection issues that just got resolved now.  (Un)fortunately, I seem not to have missed much.
Since neither you or Shark are as obviously scum as Shoes, I'm insanely suspicious of the both of you.  I don't like how you jumped onto Shoes when there was a majority on him, but I can't tell that you're scum just from that.  Shark's activity has been overall quality over quantity, my gut tells me he's town, but then during D3 both quality and quantity have gone down (yeah, yeah.  Skyrim, I know) and I'm considering him more heavily now then ever.  Because of Shoes' crappy play today, I would be more surprised if anyone didn't vote him, so figuring out who he's being bussed by will probably be futile.

I put a lot of thought into this, and now is the time to let everyone know I'm the doctor, now that the day is almost over and there's nobody to counterclaim and screw things up.  Andrew, I'll make sure you're protected tonight, and so I expect to be killed as the second best option.  Tomorrow the game will be won if you stick to the plan I laid out earlier today.  Just in case there's any confusion: I protect you so you can investigate someone, I die, then you lead the vote against whoever you find out to be scum.  The town wins!  Huzzah, long live us, etc.

[Shakerag]

Curious.  So we had a cop and a doctor survive to LYLO(assuming no one's lying, of course).  Interesting to note that Shoes and Shark have the fewest posts out of the remaining players.  Taking into consideration that I replaced into D3, of course.

[Think0028]

Day is over!

Okay, it seems that Shoesandhats is particularly disliked! Well, clear out his pockets, he's gotta go...

Erm. This is weird. Upon clearing out his pockets, not only do you find his card identifying him as a 'traitor', you find... quite a lot of sensitive material that a new agent really shouldn't have access to. At all. And a two-way radio that isn't on any frequency the agency uses.

Well, it seems we found a real traitor! Feed him to the sharks.

And thus Shoesandhats was dropped down a trap door.

That's enough of that, with any luck. Time for night!

Power roles, mafia, send me your actions.

[Think0028]

Day 4 has begun!

And Remalle, you're next to be 'eliminated.' Would you please step outside so we can verify the contents on your person? To the final three: good luck, and may the best one win. ... Well, best team really. Would kind of defeat the point if only one loyal agent won. But I digress.

Remalle, regular townie, has died! Day ends Tuesday, 9:00 PM!

[Jim Groovester]

Good job. I might be mistaken but since I started getting involved in the Beginner's Mafias I don't think the town has ever lynched scum without the help of the ICs.

Now you get to do the same dance again, but you have the benefit of one flipped scum's interactions to look over. Scum are willing to risk more to win at lylo, so when scum does flip it tends to be more revealing.

Parse through all of ShoesandHats posts and pay special attention to his interactions with other players. Since scum know that their partner is scum they tend to be unable to interact with each other in a way that looks genuine, so look for interactions that look forced and unnatural. It's usually easier for scum to not interact with each other since they can give themselves away so easily, so keep an eye out if for the majority of the game a player hasn't interacted with ShoesandHats beyond token and insignificant interactions.

This advice does come with a precaution: Looking for scumteam tells can be immensely helpful but it's unwise to rely exclusively on them to make your decision. When looking at a player, look for his interactions with flipped scum but also look at his own scumminess.

And the advice I gave you at the beginning of yesterday still applies: look closely at the remaining player's arguments and actions, and then make your decision.

Best of luck.

[Toaster]

There's nothing more to be said than what Jim already said.  I'll just echo that interactions with Shoes are not the end-all be-all of finding his scum partner (remember, Jim and I were wrong about Dsarker on that same note.)  Your case must be able to stand without those interactions.  Use them as a guide, not a foundation.

[Shakerag]

Okay then.

First of all: 

I put a lot of thought into this, and now is the time to let everyone know I'm the doctor

Remalle, regular townie, has died!

I will definately be keeping an eye on you, Remalle, in any future games.

Well, I've given the whole thread another re-read, and certainly given a lot of thought to whether Andrew or Shark is scum.  However, Andrew/Shoes just doesn't seem to click.  By Andrew's own admission, this is the first time he's made it past the first day.  And given the inexperience of both (Andrew/Shoes), I don't realistically see that one or both of them could come up with a fake cop claim and not have some glaring holes in it. 

So, Shark, was it satisfying to bus Shoes?  It must have been frustrating, having a lackluster partner like that.  You know, which is why you were often yelling for him to get back in here, and even going so far as to ask if he'd get replaced. 

Kind of funny how Shoes didn't react to you voting him right away on D3.  Actually, he didn't interact with you D3 at all.  I guess he didn't need to, since you told him he was getting bussed in scumchat, eh? 

[Shark]

Okay then.

First of all: 

I put a lot of thought into this, and now is the time to let everyone know I'm the doctor

Remalle, regular townie, has died!

I will definately be keeping an eye on you, Remalle, in any future games.

Well, I've given the whole thread another re-read, and certainly given a lot of thought to whether Andrew or Shark is scum.  However, Andrew/Shoes just doesn't seem to click.  By Andrew's own admission, this is the first time he's made it past the first day.  And given the inexperience of both (Andrew/Shoes), I don't realistically see that one or both of them could come up with a fake cop claim and not have some glaring holes in it. 

So, Shark, was it satisfying to bus Shoes?  It must have been frustrating, having a lackluster partner like that.  You know, which is why you were often yelling for him to get back in here, and even going so far as to ask if he'd get replaced. 

Kind of funny how Shoes didn't react to you voting him right away on D3.  Actually, he didn't interact with you D3 at all.  I guess he didn't need to, since you told him he was getting bussed in scumchat, eh?

"Kind of funny how Shoes didn't react to you voting him right away on D3.  Actually, he didn't interact with you D3 at all.  I guess he didn't need to, since you told him he was getting bussed in scumchat, eh? "
Bullshit argument, and you know it. He hardly responded to anything throughout day 2 and 3, including pretty much everyone who was voting him D3. Also, you haven't even waited for andrew's cop result. Scared of what it contains? You know he must have investigated one of us.

Also, I bet you're saying that you believe andrew just because you know that you have to get him to agree with you to lynch me. You were so suspicious, now you're not because you're telling andrew how smart he is. "I don't realistically see that one or both of them could come up with a fake cop claim and not have some glaring holes in it." If you really believe andrew, you'd ask him what his investigation revealed. You don't care if he's a cop or not, you just want him to like you.

So, Shakerag, was it annoying trying to save shoes? You VOTED me when I went after shoes. Your reasoning was that I was being too hasty. You were trying to get me to slow down and keep shoes alive, get me lynched instead. Also, you were the LAST to vote shoes, and we already had a majority vote on him, so to make yourself look more town, you do BIG BOLD RED TEXT. Don't try to deny that the BIG BOLD TEXT was only for your image, enlarging text doesn't do jack gamewise.

"You know, which is why you were often yelling for him to get back in here, and even going so far as to ask if he'd get replaced." Funny. Realize I was doing this because I was on the edge of voting him? All of D2? I had no material though, to lead a train on him, so I waited until D3. My target got lynched in the end.

Andrew, investigation, now. I have a feeling shakerag kept you alive because, as we've seen earlier, he's told us how you're a "terrible player etc". You're alive because he thinks he can control you to get me dead. Don't be an idiot.

So, my current theory on shakerag is that he decided to kill a good player, remalle, so he can more easily try and get me killed. He's been trying since D3.