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[Fairin]

!!SCIENCE!!

controll groups : 3
number of marksdwarves 3 -crossbows
number of bolts assigned 300 per squad
number of bolts in Ammo depository 12500 - ish give or take
Material of bolts -not assigned. grab any shoot any is the idea. i just want to -see- them train

created 3 seperate archery targets in groups of 3 each about 25 squares "wide/long" complete with 3 beds 3 chests 3 weaponracks all around the ammo pile

to complete this first step i created 9 steel crossbows and 9 suits of leather armor specifically for my marks dwarves. complete with steel flasks

came to the conclusions that, 1 if squad isn't active it doesn't train via shooting they just mill around
2 only the very first dwarf i assigned to the first squad actually actively trains. others mope around -cant follow orders-, managed to get another to train by unequiping what he had on (everything + quiver w/o arrows) and reassigning him the default archer uniform
3 this is incredibly frustrating compared to . hand a dwarf an axe and he trains with it, hand my crossbow dwarves 10k bolts and they sit around in their room all day

am i missing something so incredibly obvious im going to feel like a complete tard? or is making 3 squads of 3 too complex for the system and i should do it. one marksdwarf at a time

if the same question and answer is posted elsewhere it should be stickied.

[Tevish Szat]

I... have never had trouble with marksdwarves training, even when off duty.  Did you zone a room from the archery target and set it so that squad could train there?  Is the shooting direction correct?

Here's my setup



Notes:
> Each archery target has a room zoned from it.  Each room fills the entire physical room
> All shooting directions are right to left, as the marksdwarf is to stand on the right and shoot the target on the left
> My marksdwarf squad is set to train at each target.
> Channels next to the archery targets are a 1z drop into the ammo stockpile.  This recovers all bolts that miss.
> The floor is paved to hide unsightly broken bolts
> No one is currently training, but my squad will train when ordered to, and self-motivated squad members will go there and shoot the targets occasionally when idle.

[Fairin]

aye- i removed the possible dislexia from it and have them shooting from bottom to top

my problem is they not motivated at all to do it - 1 year of attempting to get them to train

the ones i completely removed their gear and reassigned uniforms will occasionally shoot off a bolt or 2. but never stay for long

on a side note while i was "farming trees" in my landscape i got 4 ambushes and an ettin show up which my tro of legendary axe weilders (all in masterwork mithral (useing Genesis mod) didnt take a scratch, lost 3 of the marskman . one from each squad .. the ones that actually showed up . ran into melee YARRGH!!!!

-those 3 were the ones i worked with so they'd actually shoot bolts at training targets. the others were stuck safely behind the fortifications and cannot follow orders in the barracks

[Fairin]

new !!SCIENCE!! untill i figure this out going with -one- marksdwarf in the next control group, and with 3000 steel bolts he better like it

removing the - one bolt of this one bolt of that one bolt of bone, yay full quiver!! problem

assigning him his own barracks, compelte with ammo food booze stockpiles, and a completely seperate archery target both key'd to train -bottom to top

yes.. we'll see... dwarven progress?...

[Tevish Szat]

I don't assign my marksdwarves specific bolts (or at least I use the defaults).  I just make bone bolts/r on a thriving kitten-and-puppy slaughtering industry and watch 'em go.

Did you flag the correct squad to (t)rain at your archery range?
Do you have ENOUGH bolts for the whole squad?  Sometimes dwarves get obsessive about having everything before starting.

[Fairin]

yes- all 3 targets in the barracks are flagged to train- i have literately 13,000 bolts now - quarter steel, half wood half bone

i GOT the bolts, they're just being babies about picking it up untill i unassign them armor and reassign it - and even then getting them to actually practice is making me not want to bother anymore - one of my sword dwarf squaddies was killed and hes got enough skill to spar with the elites, while my marksdwarves are all still dabbiling ><

the squads name is "the Courage of Shooting"... and failing a little bit

[Fairin]

solo marksdwarf completed result : Success, after eating drinking twice and making him his own special uniform and specifically assigning him his gear

however he only stores 25 steel bolts in his quiver, i was expecting 35+ like the NPC's quivers, maybe quality / leather type plays a role?

*UPDATE* still cant get them to train more than one dwarf at a time - soldier cannot follow orders - no reason why his quiver has bolts and his crossbow is equiped

on a fun note the 3x3 (1 space inbetween archer and target) works so the massive long archery ranges arent a requirement

edit note. the barracks in question has 3 archery targets. each assigned as a squad training target for the same squad. 1 set is side by side another set of 3 are 1 space apart both are in long / large rooms

[Tevish Szat]

how many targets do you have?  only one dwarf from any given squad can train at any given target  at a time I think.

Edit: reading comprehension needed.  you appear to have 3.  Try train [3 minimum]?

[kilakan]

Here's a tip, I find the marksdwarves rarely train until they have at least competant archery and crossbow,  otherwise they seem to not train at all.  After they get skilled I find they train all the time.

[BigFatStupidHead]

If this is just about getting marksdwarves to skill up, you should build a shootimg gallery with live targets. Crossbowmen will love shooting all sorts of holes in your POW's and innocent wildlife. Wooden bolts makes the experience last longer.

Otherwise I have nothing new to add to this discussion.

[Fairin]

Here's a tip, I find the marksdwarves rarely train until they have at least competant archery and crossbow,  otherwise they seem to not train at all.  After they get skilled I find they train all the time.

this is precicely whats is happening, the ones that get above novice train a lot more than the unskilled - going to literately force myself have "Fun", and go without metals next embark and use only marksdwarves and !!SCIENCE!! entranceways

[Oaktree]

I don't have issues training marksdwarves.  In fact, once they get skilled beyond a few levels my issues is keeping them in training bolts! (wood/bone)

1. Squad assigned a regular training barracks based on an armor stand/weapon rack.
2. Squad assigned multiple archery range rooms to use (I use 3x4 rooms with the sides channeled to catch misses); e.g. each room has one target
3. Squad assigned sufficient ammo (usually equivalent to 50 bolts per marksdwarf as a minimum)
4. I don't due anything special regarding equipment for training beyond specifying that they use a crossbow and a shield.

I leave the squads active but without a schedule until they get beyond dabbling - they go shoot and train in their idle time.  Once the squad members has a level or two I then put them on a training schedule that includes months of active training; number varies depending on squad status.  And I eventually start truncating use of ranges for my well-trained squads since they will eat through bolts if you're not careful.

Another useful adjunct is having a captured goblin who has been disarmed, but still has armor and shield.  Put him in a 3x6 pit and have the marksdwarves practice on him from the edge of the pit.  (I prefer this to trying to get the marksdwarves to fire at the goblin through fortifications.)

I tend to keep the marksdwarves on walls and/or behind fortifications instead of giving them a path into melee.  (Unless I've armored them more heavily, given them metal crossbows, and hopefully cross-trained them in hammer a bit as well.)  In fact, if you have the time building a marksdwarf bunker in the approach route to your fortress might prove worth the investment.

[Psieye]

You know... looking at all these military help threads makes me wonder why we don't have an example save uploaded somewhere for newbies to grab and look at. A bare-bones fort which is showing melee and ranged military doing training.


Regarding this specific topic: do you have separate bolts for training and combat? Short answer is: don't do this, it's (still) bugged. Reason is they don't know how to put away combat bolts to get out training bolts.

[Grumbledwarfskin]

Just to confirm, you do have three different archery ranges set up, one from each target, right? All three assigned to your marksdwarf squad? Is the shooting direction set correctly on all three targets?

I know I expected that setting up one archery range that included all my targets would make them all usable, but it's not true, each target needs to be set up as an archery range separately.

They'll spend more time at the firing range if you don't give them a barracks, so that's an option, if you're planning on using them behind fortifications and only really need their shooting skill to be good.

[Blue_Dwarf]

Having the same issues, I tried a possible workaround.

The problem seems to be that when given just archery range(s), they empty their first quiver and then go "Soldier (cannot follow orders)", occasionally going for more archery practice. If given just barracks, they just do drills. If given both range(s) and barracks, they spend most of their time in drills, with occasional dwarf going to shoot at the targets once in a while.

So I made 1-man squads instead, with just a crossbow as their uniform, and only giving each of them a separate archery range. They still have the "cannot follow orders" thing, but they snap out of it much more often. This seems to get them to train much faster.

Each bolt fired at a target gives 6 experience points, so that's 5000 bolts per dwarf to reach Legendary.