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[Reelya]

All my level 20's are over 140 HP whether they have 18 CON or 45 CON or anything in between. I have 9 level 20+ characters, so I think I can judge how they're doing.

Summarizing:

1 Archer, 40 CON, 141 HP
1 Priest, 40 CON, 142 HP
1 Warrior, 38 CON, 158 HP
1 Warrior, 45 CON, 158 HP
1 Archer, 42 CON, 150 HP
1 Archer, 40 CON, 141 HP
1 Priest 49 CON, 131 HP
1 Archer, 45 CON, 175 HP

Those are my "high con" level 20 chars. my "low con" level 20 chars are:

1 Warrior, 24 CON, 146 HP
1 Warrior, 18 CON, 142 HP

Which isn't much less than the other warriors who had CON poured into them for the first ~10 levels.

[Crowe~]

And what about your move factor?
Do you have any special bonuses that are maybe making CON seem so pointless?

[Tiruin]

There is a large random deviation on the rolls. Sounds just like your comparing a lucky roll guy to an unlucky roll guy.  I have characters over 140 hp at lv19.

And what about none Warriors, that dont raise STR. They need CON to boost move factor. New guys wont have access to all your fancy move boosting items, fine if they are stuck in a garrison forever. But new player takes the advice and never raises CON at all on archers/casters with their main party will spend majority of their turns moving on the map.

Wasn't it mentioned that Encumberance (something something) = STR + CON?
I have no idea what the computation is for movement factor though.

[Reelya]

Your point about new players not raising Con hurting their movement because they don't have +move items isn't really valid, since you gotta get levels to raise con anyway, and you can find plenty of inexpensive +move items in shops. they're also transferable, unlike con. And move rate doesn't help at all in dungeons, where you should be spending most of your turns.

A bit of juggling items helps more than raising con on all your characters. chuck +move items onto characters with the most empty inventory, and pile all the loot into 1-2 strong dump characters who will end up with move 1. You don't even need to give everyone +moves items then, that's just wasteful. A character with full encumberance will always have Move 1, so it's a waste boosting their move value.

I have no idea what the computation is for movement factor though.

I wasn't sure either so I rolled a temp party to see starting Con vs move. It's pretty linear: A 3 CON elf has move 1, an 18 CON elf has move 5. So if you level CON exclusively for 12 levels, you're probably looking at move 10 at around 36 CON. Which is the same as getting +5 move from rings and shields etc. It's still not worth it.

[Crowe~]

And what about your move factor?
Do you have any special bonuses that are maybe making CON seem so pointless?

[Reelya]

Con bonuses to movement don't seem to work out that great, you'd get +5 base movement for leveling con 100% for ~12 levels. Which is shitty compared to picking up a few rings and amulets.

My level 15 character with 25 Con has base move 6 rather than an 18 Con character with base move 5. A char with 28 Con has base move 7. So let's say each 2 levels of raising Con (+6 CON) gives you ~1 movement, half an extra HP by level 20, but a bit more inventory space.

[Wysthric]

Idk, my level 8 Warrior with low Con has 39 HP and my level 9 Warrior with higher Con has 65 HP.

[Reelya]

There are fluctuations, e.g. my one archer has 175 HP even though they basically have the same CON as the two other archers, who have 140 or 150. And my one priest with 49 Con has only 131 HP vs the priest with 40 Con/142 HP.

What I can say is that across my 9 characters who hit level 20, there is no strong corellation between Con and HP, certainly not worth allocating points to it as a strategy.

[Wysthric]

Sounds like they need to fix that.

In other news, I got my ninth character today! I'm going for an all - human party atm, let's see how this goes.

[Crowe~]

All my level 20's are over 140 HP whether they have 18 CON or 45 CON or anything in between. I have 9 level 20+ characters, so I think I can judge how they're doing.

Summarizing:

1 Archer, 40 CON, 141 HP
1 Priest, 40 CON, 142 HP
1 Warrior, 38 CON, 158 HP
1 Warrior, 45 CON, 158 HP
1 Archer, 42 CON, 150 HP
1 Archer, 40 CON, 141 HP
1 Priest 49 CON, 131 HP
1 Archer, 45 CON, 175 HP

Those are my "high con" level 20 chars. my "low con" level 20 chars are:

1 Warrior, 24 CON, 146 HP
1 Warrior, 18 CON, 142 HP

Which isn't much less than the other warriors who had CON poured into them for the first ~10 levels.

You can judge and say whatever you desire. I wasnt trying to suggest otherwise. Same as I can disagree.
Your data.

1 Archer, 40 CON, 141 HP
1 Archer, 40 CON, 141 HP
1 Archer, 42 CON, 150 HP
1 Archer, 45 CON, 175 HP - More CON more HP

1 Warrior, 18 CON, 142 HP
1 Warrior, 24 CON, 146 HP
1 Warrior, 38 CON, 158 HP
1 Warrior, 45 CON, 158 HP - Same HP as 38 CON, otherwise more CON more HP

1 Priest, 40 CON, 142 HP
1 Priest, 49 CON, 131 HP - Less HP with more CON, anomaly.


Without knowing when and were the CON was spent, the data has little value though. The HP added is random, but theres quite a trend even in that small base, with only a couple of anomalies. More CON is more HP.

My characters at level 18, 30 CON all, CON was leveled almost consistently after a very small initial bit of random leveling (1-3 within each other), the low HP priest started with the lowest CON at 11, the rest 18:

Warrior 132
Warrior 128
Warrior 133

Archer 125
Archer 125
Archer 127

Priest 101
Priest 90

Looks very consistent to me. And although I said in this thread earlier that HP gain across classes was the same, I dont think so anymore.

Warrior     0.275
Archer   0.259
Priest   0.227

Thats the average as it stands for HP gained at level up for each CON point. Thats 20% more for warriors than priests.

The problem is imo that the random variation is high, from 0.11 HP/CON to 0.60 HP/CON, the levels to gain 20-25 low. Since it doesnt give alot of time to play out and show its face. Its easy to grab a low hp character and compare to a high hp character when the sample size is only small and the random factor of HP gain from low to high is huge.

[Sartain]

Sounds like they need to fix that.

In other news, I got my ninth character today! I'm going for an all - human party atm, let's see how this goes.

What impropriety is this!?

[Arx]

There are no dwarves in my main party.

Deus vult!

[Crowe~]

What I can say is that across my 9 characters who hit level 20, there is no strong corellation between Con and HP, certainly not worth allocating points to it as a strategy.

I'll agree that could be correct from a certain point of view.
The ACTUAL hp gain is so small per con that you can question if the CON could be better spent elsewhere. Eg. The primary attack stats.

But we dont know if that is any better either, whats to say a 120 AF, is much better than 100 in terms of what is needed to be successful?
Prehaps the extra HP to survive 2-4 more hits is more worth while than the extra attack that adds ~1% to hit factor. Since we dont know the AF/DEF formula.

[Sartain]

Sounds to me like we're narrowing optimal character build down to Archers that focus solely on Agility...

[Crowe~]

Elven archers are the best!

You know this in your Dwarven heart, all of B12 does. They are just too stubborn to say so!