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[King DZA]

Change the fucking world.

It is possible that this may be the only time you ever have the opportunity to live on this earth. You might as well make it count.

It's true, a lot of stuff sucks right now, so create a better way. Be known as the person who brought an end to it, not one of the countless who surrendered to it. You will very likely get a lot of criticism for even trying, but there are many people out there who are just as tired of it as you are.

besides, even if you fail, you can die fulfilled. Knowing that you did absolutely everything in your power to make the world a better place, and that alone will inspire countless others.

Of course, you shouldn't give up on educating yourself. But do so in a way that you are truly learning. If you honestly don't feel like the current school systems have anything to offer you, than find another way. The ways to gather information are as large as the amount of information itself, don't block yourself off.

[LordBucket]

Having an education is always better than not having an
education, whether you are self-employed or not.

If by having an education you mean "attend school" this is simply not true.

Scenario 1:
Go to college fresh out of high school, get a four year degree. Be $20,000 in debt. Be unable to get the job you expected because you chose a school and degree that isn't in demand and have no experience. Try to get a lower paying job, but be unable to because you're "overqualified."

Scenario 2:
Spend a couple months fresh out of high school getting a technical certification, get a job a few months after that. Spend the next three years working progressively demanding jobs. Be making 50k/yr, have no debt.

At the end of those four years, who's in the better position?

Scenario 3:
Spend 8 years getting a highly specialized doctorate, such as medecine or law. Have $50,000 in debt. Get a job paying $100,000/yr. Realize six months later that you hate the industry you chose, but feel unable to leave because you've invested so many years of your life into it.

Senario 4:
Throw caution to the wind fresh out of high school, get a low paying cruise ship job. Tour the world for six months. Decide you don't like that, so get a low paying job as a ski lift station attendant. Spend six months skiing every other day and partying with snow bunnies. Decide you don't like that. Take the couple thousand in cash you've saved, buy a plane ticket and a backpack and spend a year backpacking through europe. Return home, get a low paying retail job, realize that you can buy a boat for $1000 during off-season, become a liveaboard. Spend a year making minimum wage, but still have $700/mo completely disposable income because your expenses are so low. Blow most of it partying, having fun, enjoying life. Look back on your life and realize you've done all this in only three years, and still have five years to catch up with the guy in scenario 3, but more importantly, relaize that you don't really want to because life has more to offer than little green pieces of paper.

Which of those people would you rather be?

education is always better

Knowledge has value. Formal education is not precisely the same thing as knowledge.

Yes, sometimes formal education is useful. In some cases it may even be a practical necessity. And sometimes it isn't. For some people, the time and money required to get a formal education may be better spent elsewhere. Yes, we can create scenarios in which the person who goes to school is in the better position. But it is a mistake, I think, to assume that this will always be so.

[nenjin]

"You get out of your education what you put into it."

Famous words from one of my professors.

In that sense, college has value to anyone that decides to invest time into it. There's an arrogance to thinking there's nothing anyone can teach you better than you can teach yourself. College isn't also all about the grades. It's about meeting people, brilliant people, making connections, having experiences and getting opportunities. That's the stuff many college people never take advantage of, myself included. It was only in the last few years of college that I realized it's completely about what you do and the obsession over "rote-learning" ect... and being angry about it is misplaced energy. For all the pomp, money and hoops involved in college, it still really is a place where you're only limited by your own capacity for effort.

[Zrk2]

Alternatively slave away for your whole life and don't end up on the street when you're old.

[Bauglir]

I object to a series of scenarios that ascribe terrible luck to people who get further educations, and great luck to people who don't. I will agree, though, that you should probably not pursue an advanced degree without certainty that it's what you want to do. If you aren't driven to work in that field, it isn't worth it the time, money, or effort, because on top of all that sacrifice the life will crush you.

College, much like high school, isn't about entirely about grades. It's about what you take away from it - if high grades are relevant to what you're pursuing, then great. If contacts are relevant, then great. If education is relevant, then great. What you should not be doing is just getting through it because it's what you're supposed to do. Know what you're after, and push the system as far as it will let you - and change the system, if you have to, to the extent you can. So start a club or something, if there's nothing appealing at your high school.

[sneakey pete]

Soo.. you somehow manage to party and yet save money? oookay...

How about scenario 5: get a 40K loan doing a course that's extremely interesting and enlightening, and then probably get a 50K a year and rising paycheck after that, having studied and done many interesting things and having fun along the way? Sure, financially your worse off than someone who became a builder. However along the way your knowledge base has increased, money isn't everything.

[LordBucket]

I object to a series of scenarios that ascribe terrible luck to people who
get further educations, and great luck to people who don't.

That was not my intent. Which I attempted to make clear when I pointed out that one could just as easily create scenarios in which the person with more formal schooling was in the more enviable position. My intent was to provide counterexamples to Chairmanpoo's assertion that education was always the better choice.

It isn't. I've pesonally known people who lived scenarios 1 and 3. I've known people who still hadn't paid off school debts fully five years after graduating. Yes, I've also known people who went to college and benefitted from it, but as you say:

you should probably not pursue an advanced degree without certainty that it's what you
want to do. If you aren't driven to work in that field, it isn't worth it the time, money,
or effort, because on top of all that sacrifice the life will crush you.

And additionally, like I said back on page 1:

high school grades matter not one tiny bit later in life.

School can be valuable. But taking the word of parents and guidance counselors that good grades and a subsequent degree are critical to have a fulfilling life is a mistake.