Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 187 188 [189] 190 191 ... 222

Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 633315 times)

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2820 on: June 05, 2016, 12:48:44 pm »

At this point I consider this game to be one where you play an Intrepid anthropologist who for some reason found himself being shunted back in time and needs, or desires, to learn all he can about these ancient civilizations before going back to his own time.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2821 on: June 05, 2016, 01:19:59 pm »

Not inaccurate!
Logged

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2822 on: June 05, 2016, 01:33:33 pm »

I can imagine there's a bit of a challenge in adding in new languages, although I think the suggestions made earlier (when we presumed you were talking about languages not dialects) should hold up without being too grindy. At the start of the game you could also give the player knowledge of their own civ's language, plus some basic knowledge of one(s) that they were allied/close too. This would allow the player to be unconstrained further. More than that, I'd see learning all the in game languages (or even one) is a fantastic innate goal for the player. It's one of those great things that games of old had where you didn't have any flashing achievement stars or anything, it was just something that you would undertake and be proud of - a sort of URR right of passage.

More than that, whilst I love dialects as a gameplay mechanic, it's a bit confusing why you'd need to learn one. I know there are some rare exceptions (some Mandarin and Spanish dialects can be very different, although they basically become their own languages), but if you take English (which has a lot of dialects) I can pretty much talk to someone from any dialect without too much difficulty. Sure, up in the north of Scotland they use some words I don't know, but I was able to converse with them fine and quickly learn their substitutions. They could easily understand me speaking a more 'standard' dialect, and I certainly wouldn't need to consult a book or a teacher! Just something to think about.

Re Tech Specs: I'd strongly suggest a 'type and suggest' model. Not only is it quite an intuitive system for the player, but it also means they have to actually think about what they want to say rather than just scroll through a list until they find something they could try.

 

Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Scoops Novel

  • Bay Watcher
  • Talismanic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2823 on: June 05, 2016, 01:54:13 pm »

It will be interesting to compare in-game time to out of game- sometimes the player will go through a few months in a day, sometimes URR will collect dust on the hard drive as it worms it way back into your forebrain. There should be a easter egg if the two ever match up, IMO. There could be some other uses if you track it- I look at those faces you posted and I immediately think "yes, I should have to recall their features if I want to report them to the cops. OTOH, if i haven't played in 6 months? Then some handholding would be nice. I'm sure there's a few other cool things you could do with it.
Logged
Reading a thinner book

Arcjolt (useful) Chilly The Endoplasm Jiggles

Hums with potential    a flying minotaur

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2824 on: June 11, 2016, 06:59:15 am »

Retropunch - ah, the reason for learning dialects is basically entirely to fake being from another nation, and in some cases, to "fit in" in particularly xenophobic nations. By default you'll just speak like Nation X (your home nation) and everyone will therefore assume (rightly) that you're from Nation X, and in most cases that won't "matter" - but if you want to fake another nation, that's when you go to the dialect. As for languages, yeah, I'll definitely think it over once I finally get 0.8 out in a month or two!

It will be interesting to compare in-game time to out of game- sometimes the player will go through a few months in a day, sometimes URR will collect dust on the hard drive as it worms it way back into your forebrain. There should be a easter egg if the two ever match up, IMO. There could be some other uses if you track it- I look at those faces you posted and I immediately think "yes, I should have to recall their features if I want to report them to the cops. OTOH, if i haven't played in 6 months? Then some handholding would be nice. I'm sure there's a few other cool things you could do with it.

Ha! That's a neat idea. I do actually have a masterplan for another idea which is vaaaaguely like that one, and I might implement a little further down the line...
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2825 on: June 11, 2016, 11:35:43 am »

Just a short update this week on a lot of things outside URR, but implementing the conversation system is proceeding, and we should have a lot of stuff to show there next week! In the mean time, a general "what am I doing with my time?" update can be found here, with some rather nice ANSI art: http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/2016/06/11/micro-update/
Logged

hops

  • Bay Watcher
  • Secretary of Antifa
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2826 on: June 19, 2016, 07:23:02 am »

Started rereading the blog, and possibly catch up with the current devblogging. It's interesting to see this go from low-fantasy to... even lower-fantasy? :P
Logged
she/her. (Pronouns vary over time.) The artist formerly known as Objective/Cinder.

One True Polycule with flame99 <3

Avatar by makowka

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2827 on: June 21, 2016, 05:50:20 pm »

Started rereading the blog, and possibly catch up with the current devblogging. It's interesting to see this go from low-fantasy to... even lower-fantasy? :P

Haha, fantasy-free! Well, effectively. Welcome, anyway!
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2828 on: June 21, 2016, 05:52:00 pm »

I’m pleased to report a nice big (if two-day delayed) URRpdate this week! Lots of progress has been made in the last fortnight, and now we can scroll through all the standard options for each conversation options, with an appropriate pairing of colours to denote whether you know how to say it in the dialect you’re currently speaking (if you don’t and you select that option, it will say it in your home dialect, thereby “giving you away” somewhat if you pretending to belong to a different culture); and in the future I might add a language layer as well, assuming I come up with a good mechanic for language-learning and language-based gameplay.

So, firstly, here’s now the conversation menu looks now, with and without a scroll bar. I’m still finishing off the coding on the scroll bar as these things are really just remarkably awkward and difficult to program in well, especially when you have options that can take up multiple lines and change size, and be sorted into windows of different sizes depending on the player’s selected options. Nevertheless, screenshots/gifs:





These are all, of course, only the default options, as the system for implementing extra questions is not yet in place, but will be soon! So as you can see, we’re going for a two-part colour coding here: green and white means that you’ve got the knowledge to say that in the chosen dialect (obviously you can say everything perfectly in your home dialect, otherwise you’d be in serious trouble!), red and grey means you haven’t. For looking at dialects, the currently-selected dialect shows up with a blue diamond and all the other dialects you know anything of have a red ‘X’. When you’re in the “Challenge” and “Smithing” options and the other options that have two windows, selected/rejected options will be displayed the same way; when you’re trading, which has three windows (your trade goods, selected trade, their trade goods), the items in the middle window will have a < or > arrow next to them showing which person of the two trading parties (i.e. you and the person you’re talking to) they came from.

Now, some techy stuff. When the world is generated, the game now has an (in the process of being written) list of every possible question archetype. There will probably be somewhere between one and two hundred default questions, at a guess, and finishing these off is one of my tasks for the coming week. As for questions that are generated? Well, every question of the sort “What do you think of [work of art]?” will simply be a variation of a default “What do you think of a specific work of art?” question, and once that question is learned the player will be able to ask about any work of art. Those meta-level questions are not present in this initial list, since one would never ask “What do you think of a specific work of art?” without stating the work of art in question, but they are also stored, albeit in separate lists. I am still calculating exactly what the best way to store the player’s dialect knowledge of these meta-questions, but I expect we’ll have a large list of meta-level questions – since there aren’t that many (ask about an artwork, a city, a town, a book, a poem, etc) I think they should be stored fine in their own list.



You’ll note a “gap” between the top and bottom lists; the bottom list is for question topics that only show up when you talk to particular classes of NPC, whereas the top lists apply to everyone. Of the two special instances shown in the above picture, for instance, the “tombs” questions apply to priests and archivists in cathedrals, whilst the “harvest” questions (as you might expect) apply to farmers. In turn, each question in each category has a list added onto the end of it, which contains a set of numbers, relating to which dialects the player does/doesn’t know how to ask that particular question in. This system obviously requires me to type out all the standard question forms – which I’d have to do anyway, regardless of system! – but works very rapidly in the speech system when listing possible statements and whether they can be said in a particular dialect. Upon a particular sentence being selected, the game will then translate the overall question into a specific question for that dialect – so “Who built the tombs?” might become “By the efforts of what craftspeople were these tombs carved?”, or “What people created these great crypts?”, or “Under what ruler were this tombs mined out?”… and so forth, and the same then obviously applies to every possible question, including the generated ones. As well as finishing all the question lists, the other goals for this week are ensuring the scroll bars work correctly, storing the meta-questions, properly allowing the player to switch dialect, and allowing the player to start typing something and then have the list of potential questions adjust themselves based on the “search” – as we discussed before, this is going to be *vital* for some of the really long question lists.
Logged

pondicherry

  • Bay Watcher
  • Too lazy to write something here.
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2829 on: June 23, 2016, 04:23:04 pm »

I'm really impressed by you and your work on URR. Really amazing things here. Great Work!
Logged
"Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then Stop."

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2830 on: June 25, 2016, 07:38:29 am »

I'm really impressed by you and your work on URR. Really amazing things here. Great Work!

Aw, thanks! So glad you like it. Let me know what you think of 0.8 in a month or two!
Logged

Kaje

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2831 on: June 25, 2016, 08:51:01 am »

I've been away for a looooooong time - could anyone give me a runthrough of the currently playable state of URR?
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2832 on: June 27, 2016, 08:02:21 am »

I've been away for a looooooong time - could anyone give me a runthrough of the currently playable state of URR?

Right now, still "just" super-detailed world; but latest release is now 14 months in development, month or two left, with millions of people and a speech generation and conversation system!
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2833 on: June 27, 2016, 08:41:15 am »

An even bigger update this week! I made a lot of headway on my academic commitments (one of which can be seen at the bottom of this update) and so I managed to carve out quite a few evenings to really focus on game development for a bit. This week I added the current list of every single standard conversation option (which is then generated for each culture when spoken), implemented the scroll bars for going through some of the longer lists, allowed the player to change their dialect and see what they can see in each dialect (I haven’t yet decided how much dialect knowledge will be present in this release – we’ll see), and then implemented a system for keeping track of all the meta-questions (such as “Please tell me about [novel]”) and what dialects the player can say those in! Lots of big progress therefore, and all the underlying aspects of the conversation system are now there – except selecting options and having them appear in the conversation itself – and all the elements of the dialect generation system are now there – except for exhaustive generation of every possible statement. My task for this week, therefore, is to make as much progress as possible in these two areas. I have no idea how fast/slow these will be, but I’m confident about having something solid to show you all in a week from now. In the mean time, though, here’s some more detail about the latest developments:

Conversation Options

I’ve created a draft list of every single default conversation option in the game. I haven’t actually counted them up but there are several hundred default options, and these will be available in every conversation, as well as another hundred or so “default” options limited to a specific class of NPC (so you can ask a guard about guard duty, an archivist about their archives, etc etc). Here’s a screenshot with an entirely incomplete section of potential default questions, and a gif of looking through the default question options for a whole bunch of conversation options:





I’m sure I’ll keep adding new questions here, but I’ve built the rest of the technical architecture (i.e. the parts more complex than the lists shown here) in such a way that just adding something to the lists here will implement a new question in all the relevant parts of the game’s code where it should be, and allow me to put in a system for generating that question. You’ll also note the different colours! After some excellent thoughts in a comment last week, there is now a range of knowledge the player can have about a given sentence. A green diamond means you can say it perfectly in that dialect; a red diamond means that there is absolutely no chance you will say it correctly; but the interesting ones are the numbers, which range from 1 -> 9 and mean you have a tiny -> very high chance of saying it correctly. If you select one of those options, a die will be rolled to decide if your character says it correctly. If they do, that sentence is then elevated up to a green diamond; if no, it is reduced by 1 or 2 (we’ll see how this goes in gameplay) making it harder to correctly guess next time you try (since you thought you knew it, but didn’t, so actually have less info than you thought). In terms of how these numbers will go up – learning a single sentence in a dialect will means that X other unknown sentences in that category will be moved upwards by Y values; X and Y will be both dependent on the size of the category. The “greeting” category, for instance, only has three options – “Polite Greeting”, “Neutral Greeting” and “Blunt Greeting”. If those are all at values of 0, and then you hear someone give you a polite greeting so that becomes a 1, the others will also immediately go up to around 0.3, for example. By contrast, the ideology category contains almost two dozen standard entries, so learning from from 0 -> 1 might add a 0.1 onto three or four of the others. This means two things – firstly, some interesting and I think valuable chance-based gameplay where you decide whether or not to risk a sentence you might be able to say correctly. Secondly, the player character’s knowledge of a particular dialect will be a more gradual development process, rather than an absolute (although some things will still immediately move you from “0” to “1” knowledge). I think this is a really good development, and I’m so glad it was suggested last week – it also makes the UI look far more interesting!

Scrolling

The scroll bars in the conversation window now work correctly. I don’t know if any of you have ever tried to program in scroll bars, but these things can be surprisingly nightmarish to code, I’ve found, but they all work rather nicely. Here’s me scrolling through the list of dialects (which is entirely complete for now, but will of course start off almost empty in future versions) and the scroll bar adjusting appropriately. I know it’s only a small thing, but these sorts of UI elements are definitely important when you’re going to have potentially large volumes of stuff to look through. Which leads onto the next section…



Search

On the topic of large volumes of stuff, I’ve also implemented the system for being able to search through a particular block of possible questions and narrow them down based on some typed letters. As you type letters into a particular window, they show up at the top; backspacing then remove them; and the game quickly updates the list of possible questions. Here’s an example of           – I typed quite slowly in this example to show the list shortening, as it shortens quite fast as soon as you’ve got a few letters in there, and then backspaced back and typed in quickly just to demonstrate that the system works effectively. In the future, therefore, even in conversation categories where there might be hundreds of options – towns, artworks, novels, etc – you’ll be immediately able to just type in “Red” to find the “Town of Red Eagle” in a second without having to scroll through potentially a hundred options. I was actually very surprised by how easy this turned out to be – I was expecting implementing search functions with large volumes of entries to take far longer. Here’s a gif of me typing in “when” into the “Past Life” category – this short category is not one you’d necessarily want to search, but it illustrates how the search function works (note the “when” appearing at the top of the window as you type it, and then the questions are narrowed down).



Changing Dialect

You can now change dialect. Selecting a new dialect switches the player’s current_dialect value, and all the conversation options then update based on whether or not you know the new dialect. Fairly simply, but obviously important. For now, all dialect knowledge is totally randomized for the sake of testing – not sure how I’ll leave this for the release. Depends on timing!

Meta-Questions

I’ve also implemented a draft list of meta-questions. There are the “What do you think of X” questions where the full list of such questions slowly expands as the player discovers more and more of the world. As there aren’t too many of these meta-questions, these are just being stored in a separate list. These won’t be present in the 0.8 release, as these need integrating with the system that’s going to replace the encyclopedia in the near future, but the basic implementation is there. This will probably be one of the first things I start doing for 0.9, although since 0.9 will include generating weapons and armour for soldiers and guards, and it has been a long while since I did any artwork, it might be hard to resist starting there…



What next on conversations?

This coming week I’ll start developing the sentence generation. All the “abstract” dialect generation is in place, so the game can select word elements, appropriate cultural/historical/geographical reference lists, sentence complexity for a dialect, various ways of speaking about various things, and so forth, and so now I need to translate this into actually spawning different sentences! I have a good idea of how to structure this, so it’s time to get started on that.
Logged

Scoops Novel

  • Bay Watcher
  • Talismanic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2834 on: June 27, 2016, 02:15:42 pm »

Are you including tone for conversation?
Logged
Reading a thinner book

Arcjolt (useful) Chilly The Endoplasm Jiggles

Hums with potential    a flying minotaur
Pages: 1 ... 187 188 [189] 190 191 ... 222