Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 180 181 [182] 183 184 ... 222

Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 624983 times)

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2715 on: December 07, 2015, 01:38:25 pm »

Extremely impressive work as always.
Just one question - have you thought about how you're going to tie the economy of nations into this? Perhaps you'd do it at a more macro level (more cities compared to villages for a wealthy nation and vice versa), or maybe on the type of districts available to spawn, but castles might be a good place to also show this off - Wealthy nations would have lavish castles whereas poorer ones would have more of a fort.

Just a thought!

Thankee! Yes, definitely, I'd like economic differences to be wide-spread, low-key, subtle and "pervasive" much like the aesthetic shape differences, colour choices, and that kind of thing. I'm not EXACTLY sure how yet, but I'm working on it. That'll be 0.9 though since the list of stuff still to do for 0.8 is massive enough, even if I'm cutting through it at a pretty damned good pace at the moment...

I hate ASCII games - yet I absolutely cannot wait to play this when it's near a playable form. Seriously stoked - awesome stuff.

Haha, thanks! I'm pleased to have "converted" you :). It'll be initially playable with this release in ~April next year or something. Very glad you like it!
Logged

Dorsidwarf

  • Bay Watcher
  • [INTERSTELLAR]
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2716 on: December 07, 2015, 05:58:51 pm »

Once again blown away by how sleek and beautiful URR is compared to most ascii games out there
Logged
Quote from: Rodney Ootkins
Everything is going to be alright

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2717 on: December 07, 2015, 06:48:05 pm »

Once again blown away by how sleek and beautiful URR is compared to most ascii games out there

Ty, ty :)
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2718 on: December 07, 2015, 06:52:10 pm »

First, before anything else, I received some incredibly exciting news in my email inbox this week about the Secret Project I’ve mentioned a few times. Once the contract is actually signed – a phrase that itself perhaps gives a few hints – I’ll post what’s actually happening, but I’m very confident in saying it’ll be to the interest of every single URR follower. I’m hugely excited – it’s my first step into a very exciting and important area of my professional life as both a games academic and a game designer and I can’t wait to start talking about it! More soon.

Now, onto this weeks’ update. This week I’ve continued the great bug purge and I’ve dealt with a massive volume of bugs, even with most of Saturday and Sunday being lost to other commitments. At this point I’ve got through a good 70% of the bugs that have accumulated in the last few months (although new ones begin to bubble up from my quagmire of code), so by the end of the next fortnight I would expect to have them all done along with castle generation, and I can hen finish off clothing generation and conclude pathfinding and AI scheduling behaviour. I’m still aiming to have all of this done by the end of December, which remains in the category of “difficult but not impossible”, so we’ll see how it goes. Here’s a complete list of issues resolved this week:

Bugs, Glitches, Improvements

- Fixed a few minor errors with delegate generation in democratic nations and ensured they are always distributed correctly.
- The basement vaults and the upper-floor delegate quarters in Mints that have delegates present are no longer mysteriously switched around.
- Ensured that small officers’ quarters (spawning in military bases in towns) always generate correctly on the inside, and don’t sometimes appear devoid of all furniture.
- All delegate houses can now be entered, and look distinct on the inside from standard middle-class housing (they have ornate flooring instead of wooden flooring)
- A major issue where you could sometimes see through church walls has been fixed!
- A minor issue with rivers in middle-class districts sometimes being smaller than they should be depending on the placement of district gates has been resolved.
- Castle generation is now appropriately affected if a river goes through the district.
- Sometimes closed doors were not opaque and sometimes open doors were; this has now been permanently fixed.
- In lower-class districts buildings can only be placed either in areas without road tiles, or on standard rather than special road tiles, in order to prevent some weird AI behaviour when roads surrounding buildings meshed with special road tiles.
- A minor issue in middle-class districts where special roads were given priority over standard roads (it would take a while to explain what this meant) at certain points, and was producing weird AI behaviour; again, as above, this is now resolved.
- When you load the game, it no longer mysteriously advances one turn.
- Religious symbols actually blend correctly on prayer mats instead of blending in a slightly peculiar way.
- People who spawn in groups now actually have clothes…
- Doors to delegate homes no longer glitch out weirdly.
- Fixed a weird issue where mountains that spawn rivers could no longer spawn them correctly; I think this was a result of some under-the-hood changes to storing world data a little while back.
- Fixed a weird issue with religious buildings that have additional corner branches instead of “side” branches, wherein they were not generating perfectly on the inside (this was a small error I suspect nobody else even spotted, but it was bothering me).
- Fixed a bug where a few orientations of delegate housing in city centres spawned houses that were actually too small to correctly generate an interior!
- Sorted out an issue where town walls in isolationist nations would sometimes stretch to the map edge and make it impossible to enter without leaving the map grid and then going back inside at the right “angle”.
- Ensured that smaller middle-class houses have more room partitions on the inside and look rather less empty and bleak.
- Dealt with a final remaining issue with middle-class houses where the interiors were, STILL, sometimes slightly too large.
- Resolved the final few issues with Mints re: the number of guards that spawn inside them, thereby making sure there are never now too many guards or too few and spawned guards can always match up correctly with their abstract counterparts.

Next Time

This coming fortnight I’ll be handling all remaining accumulated bugs from the last ~6 months of development (that weren’t dealt with in the past fortnight) and finishing off castle generation. My expectation is that the update on the 12th/13th will be castle generation, then 19th/20th will be the final bugfixing/improvement entry, then 26th/27th will be clothing, and then 2nd/3rd of January should be the conclusion of all remaining pathfinding/scheduling developments. After that we’ll be moving towards the conversation system, which is beginning to take quite a solid form in my mind. See you all next week for, I hope, castle generation! It’s looking extremely impressive and I think you’ll all be very happy with how it looks. You’ll even be able to walk along the battlements (if you can find your way up there)!

Also next week will have pictures. Dozens of awesome procedurally-generated castle pictures.
Logged

boatie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2719 on: December 08, 2015, 10:57:52 am »

Man, I'm excited about the news!
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2720 on: December 09, 2015, 07:09:49 am »

Man, I'm excited about the news!

Thanks! The next blog update though should be quite something, as long as I do indeed have castle generation in a show-able state by then...
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2721 on: December 13, 2015, 04:03:31 pm »

PROCEDURAL CASTLE GENERATION

At long last, castles are generating, and you will be able to visit them in this release!

So get some food and drink, relax, put your feet up, and sit back for a detailed exploration of how castles are going to generate, what you’re going to find inside them, what the player will be able to do there, how you’ll gain access, who you’ll find living there, and so on.

Firstly – castles are one of the only two districts which are barred to player entry in the current version of the game (the other being dockyard districts). I tried a few early models of castle generation in the present release but just couldn’t find something which worked relatively quickly, generated them in the detail I wanted, and ensured that they were aesthetically consistent with the rest of the nation – not to mention that I was redoing how all the ideologies work and I wasn’t quite sure how these were going to tie in (more on this below). So I decided to leave them until this release, and now that NPCs are almost “done” and the majority of the bugs created over the last few months have dealt with, I realized the time had come to implement castles.



What goes into a castle? Castles are located in cities and take up a full district in that city. As I’ve talked about before, policies/ideologies have been completely reworked to provide physical and structural changes to each nation, rather than more abstract things. Therefore, the “Zealotry” ideology has religious buildings spawn in all city districts; the “Conscription” ideology places a barracks in every town; the “Isolationist” ideology creates city walls; “Theocracy” always ensures a crypt beneath a cathedral; and so on. I’ve now extended this system to castles, meaning that the rooms you find inside each castle (aside from the standard halls, guard quarters, etc) are entirely dependent on the ideologies of that nation, and forms a kind of microcosm which reflects the city around it (and all the people in that nation, and its towns and settlements, and its citizens, and so forth).



So, a Monastic nation will have some monks resident in the castle, a Vassalage nation will have a hallway depicting the banners and armour of all its important houses and families, an Imperialist nation will have a room filled with trophies from past conquests, a nation which cares about Aesthetics will have an art gallery within the castle, one which believes in a Penitentiary justice system will have a dungeon, and so on. This therefore means that each castle can have a range of special rooms, from the smallest possible number of two (I think!) for a nation where almost none of its polices necessitate special rooms, to a grand total of sixteen rooms for a nation which happens to have chosen ideologies which necessitate something special (and everything in-between). As ever I wanted castles to reflect the aesthetic/geometric preferences of each nation (square, octagon, circle, diamond, cross) and also, of course, to actually look like a castle on the outside with walls, moats, and so forth. This leaves us with a “two part” castle system – generating the outside of the castle which is the “district” of the city, so to speak, and then generating the inside of the castle.



Here we have an example of a “castle district”. In the design of this generator I wanted to accomplish several things. Firstly it should look defended, aside from the city walls which interpenetrate each city and delimit one district from another. This means walls and/or moats depending on the particular policies of that nation. Secondly, it should fit with the rest of the nation: this obviously means the usual consistency in brick colour, but also in shape, so we see here the castle for a octagon nation (and there will be others shown elsewhere in this entry), and the moat and the walls both clearly reflect this aesthetic preference. Thirdly, of course, it needs to fill up the district – splitting cities into square districts is an acquiescence to various gameplay and technical requirements or decisions, and trying to get a singe building to fill up an entire district just wouldn’t work (cathedrals in city centres, for example, are massive, but only take up around 1/4 of the district at most). Therefore, what else do castles often have? Well, castles (and stately homes/mansions/manors more generally) often have expansive gardens, so I decided to take a leaf from the mansion generation system and add some rather snazzy gardens into the mix as well, behind the walls (these will have more detail once I redo plants in some later release). Some more of the district is then “taken up” by adding small shape-appropriate towers into the external wall of the district as well as the internal; I think this makes quite a nice visual effect, and helps the districts with smaller castles (as castles can vary in size depending on how many ideology-dependent rooms spawn within them) feel a little less empty and devoid. Ultimately it is tricky making the entire district full via a single building, and there is more variation I want to add in the future, but I think it’s working well enough for the time being (as there will also have guards on patrol and so forth to add more detail). Here’s another example for a cross nation:



We then come to handling the inside of a castle. As above, there is a significant range of possible rooms, *and* each possible room has its own layout, and these need to somehow be shoved correctly into a castle of a particular shape and size. Suffice to say, this is no easy programming task, but the game can now select from a range of preset “starting points” for castles, and then split and subdivide rooms in a number of ways, and then add in the special rooms (and the ordinarily rooms) in sensible locations, and do this for any number of shapes, sizes and permutations of important rooms. Like most of the most complex generators in the game this is a mix of PCG, handmade regions, and large databases of areas that are somewhere between the handmade and the procedural. This system took the best part of a week’s coding to complete, but now it works (I think!) for any value (within the scope of possible values). Castles always contain a great hall and guard quarters (and/or soldier quarters depending on ideologies) which are positioned in the parapets/towers surrounding the castle. All castles then contain a range of studies, dining rooms, bedrooms on their upper floors, and so forth, and then a throne room situated somewhere on the ground floor, although the precise nature and position of this throne room varies for democratic/ theocratic/ stratocratic/ monarchic nations. Alongside these are all the ideology-determined rooms, of which there are dozens. Rooms that might otherwise be similar – like quarters for monks, servants, soldiers, etc (how many ways can you make a room with a bunch of bed distinct??) – always have some variations, so they might have different floors, or different extra furniture, and so forth, so every kind of room will be distinctive. Also – you see those rooms below with just tables in? Those will soon contain books, maps, trophies of battle, tributes from weaker nations, etc, but for now,they’re just tables! So, here are two examples of what the bottom-floor interior of a castle might look like, taken from an octagonal castle and a cross castle:







Naturally, not all castles have an “open” interior section that leads back outside, it just so happened that the two I generated for this entry did! More important rooms means a larger castle and a lower chance of an open inside. Similarly, there are various things that can appear in corridors – banners showing the coats of arms of vassal houses, holy books on pedastals, placards noting arena champions, and various other things – but I haven’t quite got around to adding those in yet at time of writing (but they won’t take more than a few hours at most). Similarly, see the odd empty room? Those will be money caches soon. Also, if you see some unknown symbols… well, you’ll have to explore some castles to find out what those are! Next we also have some top floors, containing the master bedroom for the ruler (and potential space for a harem, or consorts, or multiple partners, if the civilization in question goes in for that), then various bedrooms for the various offspring of the ruler, guests, and so forth, again with a nice lot of variation for different shapes and sizes of castle – these are of course rather similar to the ornate quarters in mansions in officer quarters in military districts, but there is only so much variation one can give to a bedroom. There are also the upper floors of each tower on each side, which lead out onto the roof! I’ll get pictures of these up at a later date as I’m still finishing them off, but you’ve no doubt seen the bedrooms in URR’s mansions, for instance, so you get the basic idea. There are also various rooms that spawn underground too, and various secret rooms as well…

What about the castle’s inhabitants? Well, naturally we’ll have the ruler; we’ll have any assistants, clerks, eunuchs, partners/consorts, and so forth; potentially priests and monks if the ideologies suit it; lots of guards and soldiers, though again their number and placement vary for various reasons; servants and/or slaves; and any guests, though I’m not quite sure what guests we’ll have visiting rulers. The rulers will of course sometimes leave the castle to preside over parliament, meet foreign dignitaries, and that kind of thing, but that’s in the future. What about access? I’m not going to implement the key/permission system in this release, since most of the things that will be later required to gain access to areas aren’t implemented yet anyway! You’ll remain free to wander around the world for the time being and meet the people there and talk to them, but it won’t be too long until you’ll need the appropriate keys and permissions to gain access to the most important areas; for now, therefore, guards will let you wander.

So there we have it. Castles are now, I would say, as detailed and interesting as cathedrals, which certainly makes a lot of sense – these should be the two most impressive structures in the world (although I have an idea for some special massive buildings in the future, like rare one-off huge prisons, or asylums, or arenas, and so forth). Here’s a comparison pic of a generated castle and a generated cathedral (the two largest structures you can find) to give you a good idea of the similarities and differences. I’m immensely pleased with how these now look and I hope you like them too!



Next week I’ll probably post about the final removal of (hopefully) all remaining bugs, at which point I would hope that the game will be stable, or at least as stable as a massive release of this sort can possibly be because major wide-ranging playtesting by a community rather than an individual. Then, hopefully, I can finish off AI/pathfinding and clothing stuff before the end of the year. It remains a hugely audacious goal – I need to get all nomadic clothing and tribal clothing generated, and get every single NPC scheduling and pathfinding correctly on the “human” rather than abstract scale – but I… think it can be done before the end of December. See you all in seven days!
Logged

Dorsidwarf

  • Bay Watcher
  • [INTERSTELLAR]
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2722 on: December 15, 2015, 01:51:35 pm »

Wowsers. Those are some pretty huge castles and stuff.

The only thing I'd mention, however, is the castle walls. Do any ideologies have the "practical" straight walls to their castle or do they all have the weird indian-esque zig-zag?
Logged
Quote from: Rodney Ootkins
Everything is going to be alright

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2723 on: December 15, 2015, 03:59:20 pm »

Wowsers. Those are some pretty huge castles and stuff.

The only thing I'd mention, however, is the castle walls. Do any ideologies have the "practical" straight walls to their castle or do they all have the weird indian-esque zig-zag?

The second/third from the bottom is completely straight?

I imagine that many in game will be straight, as that's the most obvious design and from what I remember, even those civs that went on to have fancier ones often had a lot of square (and later rounded) castles/forts.


I have to say I do have a concern though, which is that from looking at those castles (and other big buildings) I'd be hard pressed to know what's where internally (even with a birdseye view!). I can pick out the throne room and a dining room, but everything else is difficult to say. Whilst exploration is fun, getting lost in endless store rooms and whatever whilst you're trying to desperately talk to the king may become tiresome.
This is the obviously compounded on by the incredibly impressive but also very different shapes, meaning that it won't even be that you'll be able to use your knowledge from last time in future.Perhaps you might be able to do something UI wise to overcome this?

Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2724 on: December 15, 2015, 04:29:45 pm »

Wowsers. Those are some pretty huge castles and stuff.

The only thing I'd mention, however, is the castle walls. Do any ideologies have the "practical" straight walls to their castle or do they all have the weird indian-esque zig-zag?

Thanks! I think the circular/octagonal/diagonal ones are fairly straight, but those are indicative of the five aesthetics; decided I was willing to drift just a little from realism in the aid of variation (a choice I make pretty often).

I have to say I do have a concern though, which is that from looking at those castles (and other big buildings) I'd be hard pressed to know what's where internally (even with a birdseye view!). I can pick out the throne room and a dining room, but everything else is difficult to say. Whilst exploration is fun, getting lost in endless store rooms and whatever whilst you're trying to desperately talk to the king may become tiresome.
This is the obviously compounded on by the incredibly impressive but also very different shapes, meaning that it won't even be that you'll be able to use your knowledge from last time in future.Perhaps you might be able to do something UI wise to overcome this?

I suspected this kind of question would come up! There are several answers.

Firstly, and most importantly, the conversation system: when being directed to a building for something there's a good chance someone would tell you details ("It's in the map room in the castle, which if I recall is in the north-east corner"), and even if not, once in a building it should only be a couple of keypresses to ask someone where something is and get a reply. At the same time, for the most part I have actually strived to make the layouts fairly understandable, although castles are very complex; I find them fairly clear to play and actually walk around, even when I don't know a layout (even if I do know the generator, admittedly, so I'm certainly not unbiased).

Secondly, ITEMS. A lot of these rooms need things in which don't yet exist! Books, maps, weapons, tributes, paintings, etc etc, which will make them more visually recognizable and more varied.

Thirdly, new rooms - not all the possible rooms are here on these diagrams yet, and the castle size does try to generate in such a way that the castle is dense with important rooms and has the smallest possible number of non-important rooms. I'm still working on this system, and actually in this evening's coding I think I've detected a small issue with it that needs resolving - but nevertheless, the ratio of useful-to-default rooms will improve just a little more before release.

And fourthly, I guess - you won't be spending all your time in these huge buildings! I hope that once we have a lot of strategy-level gameplay around conversations, travel, currency etc going (in next 12 months, along with a lot of other stuff), reaching one of these should be rare and noteworthy, and should hopefully feel fresh, and actively encourage you to explore to not just find Thing X or Person Y you went in there to find/meet, but also to see what else is there. So I don't think it will get dull exploring a castle or cathedral etc, given how comparatively rarely you should be in them in the first place.

Fifthly, you will be able to buy maps of major buildings!

Hopefully that sets your concerns to rest :). I'd be keen to hear any other ideas to sit alongside, but I'm confident the above is a pretty strong combination.
Logged

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2725 on: December 15, 2015, 04:53:03 pm »

It does a lot to put them to rest indeed!
I LOVE the idea of maps, although it might be good if they could actually have it written as an overlay what those rooms are (map room for instance) rather than just the layout? It'd also be nice if you could, in certain circumstances, have an NPC take you (or escort you!) to a part of the castle.
This'd mean that you could get directly where you needed to go if you didn't feel like having to work it out, and not break any immersion.

 



Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2726 on: December 15, 2015, 06:14:09 pm »

Excellent!

Labels - quite possibly. Someone might escort you - definitely.
Logged

Greenbane

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2727 on: December 16, 2015, 09:09:44 am »

Awesome! And it looks like the latest update has been featured in Rock Paper Shotgun.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2728 on: December 16, 2015, 05:14:26 pm »

Thanks! And that is rather nice - it's awesome that the RPS guys like URR.
Logged

destroythecore

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2729 on: December 16, 2015, 07:14:57 pm »

So this game is made in Python, no wonder the updates are coming out at such a fast pace  8).
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 180 181 [182] 183 184 ... 222