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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 635507 times)

Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2070 on: June 12, 2014, 05:28:53 am »

In other news, yesterday the roads in URR turned to lava and farms ceased to have crops. It was basically the apocalypse, but IT HAS NOW BEEN FIXED.
ALL HAIL THE ROADS OF LAVA, FROM STONE TO FIRE, FROM STONE TO FIRE!
(please include a reference to lava roads in your cult creation!)

I guess it does answer my question and does sound very exciting (see: heavy convulsions of excitement) but I still just can't imagine how it could be manageable and not a bit of a grind fest of checking loads of houses.

For instance, if you've got 200 or so houses per area, and without specific guidance (which might mean highlighting) I can imagine it being a bit of a slog just trying loads of random houses, even with some rough directions (and I can't imagine how to do really good ones with procedurally generated terrain/features). Similarly, having loads of houses that you could potentially enter which might have great stuff in (but which you don't have keys for) might grate a bit on some players.

I completely agree that magic location isn't great, but perhaps the houses (or doors) you have keys for could glow/highlight when you're near? I just think that with so many houses/buildings and such a deep history/atmosphere, you don't want the main part of the game to be 'hunt the house'.

Haha, I shall try! Hmm - you make a compelling argument for the highlighting. Perhaps only certain things highlight; maybe houses and regular buildings highlight, but special buildings you have the keys for don't highlight. Perhaps the compromise is that when the *player character* has knowledge of that key, it highlights; otherwise it doesn't. Importantly, just going around trying every lock for a key will quickly raise the suspicions of the city's security forces, which will be one major thing preventing you from finding a key and just trying it everywhere until you find somewhere it works. Once you know the location of the key, though, I don't see any issue with the highlighting idea! If the player doesn't know the key's use nothing will be highlighted (and trying every lock will get you in trouble); if the player character does, it'll be highlighted. The release after the one I'm working on now will be handling interiors, so I'll be implementing keys and whatnot then. I like this model so it'll be the first thing I try!
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hops

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2071 on: June 13, 2014, 05:58:48 am »

Too bad that this is extremely low fantasy. I'd love some vengeful god turning floor into lava.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2072 on: June 13, 2014, 10:15:34 am »

Too bad that this is extremely low fantasy. I'd love some vengeful god turning floor into lava.

No lava gods, alas :(
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Nighthawk

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2073 on: June 13, 2014, 11:09:16 pm »

Oh, my. It's been a while since I last checked up on this project, and... wow. I'm tempted to put myself into cryostasis with instructions to be awoken when the game is complete.

The amount of dedication you're putting into every part of the work is just astounding. There aren't many devs that are willing to pay so much attention to one aspect of the game to the point of ensuring that shop signs are made of the proper wood. Really. That is some serious attention to detail.

I can just imagine seeing the streets of a city bustling with workers, or a plaza hosting an execution attended by crowds of onlookers, or the scorched remains of a town after it is sacked by an opposing army.

I'm really excited for this.  :D
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2074 on: June 14, 2014, 04:41:09 pm »

Oh, my. It's been a while since I last checked up on this project, and... wow. I'm tempted to put myself into cryostasis with instructions to be awoken when the game is complete.

The amount of dedication you're putting into every part of the work is just astounding. There aren't many devs that are willing to pay so much attention to one aspect of the game to the point of ensuring that shop signs are made of the proper wood. Really. That is some serious attention to detail.

I can just imagine seeing the streets of a city bustling with workers, or a plaza hosting an execution attended by crowds of onlookers, or the scorched remains of a town after it is sacked by an opposing army.

I'm really excited for this.  :D

Haha, you and me both! Thanks a ton :). The level of detail I'm going for has really just evolved quite organically over the process - so many of the games I like the worldbuilding/storytelling in the most have these incredibly dense, detailed worlds where everything subscribes to a certain kind of consistent "logic" (even if a fantasy/SF/whatever world), and that's something I'm really trying to emulate. As for NPCs, we're now only a release-and-a-half until I'll be working on NPCs! I'm incredibly excited about working on that release. I *hugely* appreciate the feedback, anyway! So great to know people like the project.
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Neonivek

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2075 on: June 14, 2014, 04:45:13 pm »

Quote
Haha, you and me both!

While I know what you mean I am chosing to misinterpret it.

Uhhh URR, I think there is a bit of logistical problems with you freezing yourself until the game is done. In that... I think you need to be awake to finish it... unless you aren't the... Your a robot!
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2076 on: June 15, 2014, 12:50:54 am »

Quote
Haha, you and me both!

While I know what you mean I am chosing to misinterpret it.

Uhhh URR, I think there is a bit of logistical problems with you freezing yourself until the game is done. In that... I think you need to be awake to finish it... unless you aren't the... Your a robot!

My secret is out!
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2077 on: June 15, 2014, 03:03:54 am »

I’m thoroughly back into the swing of coding now and have been making significant progress on 0.6 this week. Today’s update is therefore very screenshot-heavy, and focuses on four things – market districts, farms, towns and settlements.

Markets

Market districts are now finished. They generate a large number of shops, a warehouse for each of those shops (each of which will have a key located somewhere, or in someone’s possession), and an auction house and a currency exchange (the ‘+’-shaped building and the octagonal building respectively), though I am still figuring out the exact mechanics for auctions. They can now also handle rivers and various road layouts correctly, and all the shops spawn with shop signs on them so you know (assuming you can deduce the meaning of the symbol!) what kind of shop it is. Here’s one without a river and with the warehouse districts quite spread out…



… and here’s one with a river. Note that only the largest roads are turned into bridges for crossing the river, and due to the placement of the major roads, the warehouses are clustered in the upper-left corner.



I’ve also taken the graphics for shop signs out of my graphics file and integrated them into the game, as well as finishing off a few final signs I hadn’t sorted out (like those for auction houses and currency exchanges). Each market contains a lot, but you won’t be going back-and-forth to the same district over and over; once the story is implemented and you know your objectives, I wouldn’t expect you to visit the same market more than a couple of times at the most, but therein lies another strategic decision about returning to the same market for an item you couldn’t afford last time, or pushing onwards. Anyway, with this graphical integration you can now look at the shop sign and get a symbol depicting the use of that shop, as in this screenshot with the player wandering around a desert city:



Farms

I’ve finished farms. All graphics for crops and fruit trees are implemented, the generator is now more varied, farmhouses and other appropriate buildings spawned (which will one day be connected to the “sidequest” generation – perhaps a wanted criminal is hiding out in one?) and a few remaining bugs with them have been fixed. Farm generation has also been tweaked a little to make things more appropriate for different terrains and climates, and I’ve started to put in the appropriate data structures required for later handling things like animals in climates where crops might not grow so readily. Needless to say, farms are not exactly a core part of the game, but I think it’s important that even tangential parts of the world are highly detailed. So many fictional worlds (games and otherwise) fall apart on their unexplained aspects, and it’s hard to imagine empires being sustained without some kind of food source…



Settlements

More progress on hunter-gatherer settlements. They now spawn with an appropriate kind of building material for all their buildings. The settlement below is built from stone, but these materials include wattle & daub, wood, stone, mud bricks, blocks of snow (in polar regions), and many others. In the middle of this settlement you can see the house of the Wolf-Chieftain who ruled this civilization, the town hall (the long building), and also a ‘?’ within a walled-off area. I’ll be talking more about that ‘?’ next week, since as long-time players know, a ‘?’ is always something that can be viewed and read – an inscription, a shop sign, or in this case, a standing stone.



Towns

Lots of progress on towns. They now spawn actual buildings rather than lava placeholders (though I am sure some will be saddened by this news), doors spawn everywhere needed, shops now spawn (there’s only a very small number with a limited potential set of shops that can be chosen upon generation), and various other important buildings like town halls, barracks (if the civ is sufficiently militaristic), taverns, small graveyards and the like also generate. One of the things I need to work on next is getting religious buildings to generate, since each civilization’s religion will have a unique generated layout for its churches (or abbeys, chapels, basilicas, mosques, rectories, pagodas – whatever term that civilization prefers). I’ve also handled towns that spawn at the end of a road or spawn on no road at all (very rare), as those were causing a few issues with generating appropriate road patterns when there was no “core” road pre-existing on the map grid to go by.



I’m now going to renege slightly on my promise from last week to  “never predict the next update”, and state that the standing stones mentioned above will definitely be included, though beyond that I’m not sure what else. Possibly some graphics, or another city district if I’m feeling like it. I’ve been doing a lot of draft work on paper to think about how docks and upper-class housing districts are going to generate, so it’s possible one of those will be coming next. Anyway, thanks for reading, and let me know what you think!
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wobbly

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2078 on: June 15, 2014, 03:29:43 am »

Some pretty nice work there. Looks well on it's way to being the most visually stunning rogue-like I've seen.

Do you mind saying a bit about how the time limit is going to work? I'm generally not a fan of time limits, but I don't mind them when they err on the side of generous (e.g. you can take your time, but you can't scum for instance). I generally like to take my time & explore the world, would be a shame if that wasn't possible.
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Ivefan

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2079 on: June 15, 2014, 11:34:16 am »

Some pretty nice work there. Looks well on it's way to being the most visually stunning rogue-like I've seen.

Do you mind saying a bit about how the time limit is going to work? I'm generally not a fan of time limits, but I don't mind them when they err on the side of generous (e.g. you can take your time, but you can't scum for instance). I generally like to take my time & explore the world, would be a shame if that wasn't possible.

Seconded.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2080 on: June 15, 2014, 09:34:33 pm »

Some pretty nice work there. Looks well on it's way to being the most visually stunning rogue-like I've seen.

Do you mind saying a bit about how the time limit is going to work? I'm generally not a fan of time limits, but I don't mind them when they err on the side of generous (e.g. you can take your time, but you can't scum for instance). I generally like to take my time & explore the world, would be a shame if that wasn't possible.

Seconded.

Thank you, and sure! Well, the timer is best compared to the corruptions system in ADOM. It's not a food clock where you have to constantly top it up, but rather something "abstracted" out from the world a little bit which can be sped up/slowed down based on your in-game actions. It is linked, as you might expect, to the main quest, and connects to many of the high-level strategic choices I want the player to be making - where do you explore, who do you ally with, etc, knowing that you cannot do all or everything in one playthrough. As I mentioned in some other comment somewhere in this (endlessly ballooning!) thread, I find there to be something incredibly compelling about the idea of a world that you do *not* have time to explore everything in. A world where even if you complete the game, there might be nations you've only heard whispers or rumours of but never got the time to visit. A world where you have to make choices and prioritize your exploration. So, exploration is a core part of the game, rest assured on that. But, you cannot just meander around forever! Decisions must be made and priorities... er... prioritized. From my early experimentation of this on some unreleased builds, it lends an amazing sense of significance to your exploration choices, and to those parts of the world you uncover. I recognize it's an unusual idea for a core strategy-level mechanic but I think it'll work amazingly well. Equally, the level of detail in the game is important to this - although the world is procedurally generated, I want it to always feel hand-made. It will naturally need playtesting to find the exact balance for freedom/stopping-scumming, but that's a playtesting issue, not an overall mechanic issue. Hope that answers the question! :)
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Retropunch

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2081 on: June 16, 2014, 06:18:19 am »

Thank you, and sure! Well, the timer is best compared to the corruptions system in ADOM. It's not a food clock where you have to constantly top it up, but rather-snip-

Very interesting indeed. I love the idea of not being able to visit everywhere, especially when everything is newly generated each game - with enough difference between nations/places this would become something truly, truly remarkable. Tossing up the choice between visiting the Shining desert kingdom of Aaz'rh or the Swamp Citadel of Ringantal whilst knowing you only have enough time to do one would make me squirm in a truly horrified and fascinated manner.

I think what most people are opposed to is a sort of food/age clock which progresses on arbitrarily whilst you're just wandering around taking in the sights. From what you've said, it sounds like you're just tying it to strategic/logistical issues (such as travelling between cities, sending messages etc.) instead of the actual wandering around type stuff?
If you are, I would suggest to still have the days progress very slowly whilst you're on foot (maybe 24/48 minutes per day?) - nothing is more jarring than games where time completely stops when you're not purposefully waiting/resting.
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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2082 on: June 22, 2014, 04:38:30 am »

Thank you, and sure! Well, the timer is best compared to the corruptions system in ADOM. It's not a food clock where you have to constantly top it up, but rather-snip-

Very interesting indeed. I love the idea of not being able to visit everywhere, especially when everything is newly generated each game - with enough difference between nations/places this would become something truly, truly remarkable. Tossing up the choice between visiting the Shining desert kingdom of Aaz'rh or the Swamp Citadel of Ringantal whilst knowing you only have enough time to do one would make me squirm in a truly horrified and fascinated manner.

I think what most people are opposed to is a sort of food/age clock which progresses on arbitrarily whilst you're just wandering around taking in the sights. From what you've said, it sounds like you're just tying it to strategic/logistical issues (such as travelling between cities, sending messages etc.) instead of the actual wandering around type stuff?
If you are, I would suggest to still have the days progress very slowly whilst you're on foot (maybe 24/48 minutes per day?) - nothing is more jarring than games where time completely stops when you're not purposefully waiting/resting.

I love how you put it re: horrified & fascinated - that's *exactly* what I'm going for. Well, the clock advances whatever you're doing (I know I keep saying this, but the actual nature of the clock will be explained later) along with the time/date. The time/date advance according to your actions and the terrain you're passing through; a frozen mountain pass will naturally take longer to cross than a farm. I'm still working on balancing exactly how long time takes, actually, since that's a surprisingly tricky thing to balance between it not being so slow you can explore 50% of the world in a "day", whilst not having it so fast that entire weeks will cycle by whilst you're exploring a city. It is possible I will need to extend the world map just a little to make these "proportions" a bit more appropriate. But yes, the clock is effectively tied to strategic issues; which is to say, poor strategic choices will "lose you" time you could have otherwise been spending progressing. For the next few releases the game will remain totally clock-free, since until the story etc is in I just want to let people explore it freely! Once i reach the point of actually implementing the "game" aspects above the world-building aspects, then I'll be able to say a lot more on it :)
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Retropunch

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2083 on: June 22, 2014, 11:19:38 am »

snip-snip
That sounds very interesting - I'm sure there will be a lot of balancing to come later but that's a very 'cross the bridge when we come to it' kinda thing.

Those four screenshots of districts stitched together look amazing,  you really get a sense of what it'll look like all together. Just as a tiny wrinkle, from both a sort of realism and ease of play perspective it might be good to have a main-ish road running through the slum to the front gate. At ground level I imagine it might be difficult to navigate without one and while slums are supposed to be hard to navigate, having a focal point might make it a lot more reasonable.

I figuratively and literally can't wait for the next release!
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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.5 released!
« Reply #2084 on: June 22, 2014, 07:27:11 pm »

snip-snip
That sounds very interesting - I'm sure there will be a lot of balancing to come later but that's a very 'cross the bridge when we come to it' kinda thing.

Those four screenshots of districts stitched together look amazing,  you really get a sense of what it'll look like all together. Just as a tiny wrinkle, from both a sort of realism and ease of play perspective it might be good to have a main-ish road running through the slum to the front gate. At ground level I imagine it might be difficult to navigate without one and while slums are supposed to be hard to navigate, having a focal point might make it a lot more reasonable.

I figuratively and literally can't wait for the next release!

Exactly this re: the bridge. I'm planning it out on paper, but the exact values will just need a lot of playtesting. Thanks! In this particular instance the four weren't actually together on the map, there would normally be a road going through the slum, I just took four screenshots and stitched them together to give the effect of what they looked like! I'd say I'm near to the 50% point on this release - there's a lot done, but a lot yet to do (and I have some serious academic commitments in the next few weeks), but I also need to lay the groundwork for 0.7 which will be generating all the interiors for these snazzy places :).
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