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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 635196 times)

Ivefan

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1905 on: February 15, 2014, 07:34:15 am »

You can be assured that there will be a wiki.
That is why the ciphers will gen anew each game
So you'll make a cipher generator for each game making it so that the cipher will never be the same?
So does the player solve the cipher once in the game and all subsequent cyphers of the same language, In that game, will be automatically translated?
Though i guess it depends on how easy the cipher is, I think I'm one of those that would just go to a wiki because deciphering just takes time. Unless the player likes to figure it out just for the sake of deciphering it, it becomes a tedious choir rather than an interesting feature.

Do note that i do not know how important it is to read the ciphers, nor do i know if there is alternative ways to progress.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1906 on: February 15, 2014, 08:24:55 am »

You can be assured that there will be a wiki.
That is why the ciphers will gen anew each game
So you'll make a cipher generator for each game making it so that the cipher will never be the same?
So does the player solve the cipher once in the game and all subsequent cyphers of the same language, In that game, will be automatically translated?
Though i guess it depends on how easy the cipher is, I think I'm one of those that would just go to a wiki because deciphering just takes time. Unless the player likes to figure it out just for the sake of deciphering it, it becomes a tedious choir rather than an interesting feature.

Do note that i do not know how important it is to read the ciphers, nor do i know if there is alternative ways to progress.

Correcto re: cipher never being the same. It will be the same SORT, but a different key. Well, for the "core" game (like 3 Runes in DCSS) ciphers will be optional, but for the extended game they will be an important part. It will be *very* clear these extended areas are only for players very well-skilled in the game, and will be very tricky, of which ciphers will be only one part.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1907 on: February 15, 2014, 08:55:53 am »

First off for this week, here are some two-part sigils. The coats of arms are now all but finished, and just one more day is needed before I’ll be done with them and moving on to generating ruling families and civilization histories. There’s about a dozen potential components to these sigils and, as with all the others, any given symbol cannot be repeated more than once in the same world gen.


But now onto the crux of this entry. Recently I’ve had a few questions about the long-term plot and direction of Ultima Ratio Regum. Many have noticed – rightly – that 99% of what has been implemented in the game so far is best termed as world-building. Ziggurats are the only “gameplay” that has yet been developed, but they are obviously in their very early stages and lacking a large number of features. A few people have asked – what is the plot of the game? What will the gameplay actually look like? What kind of structure will the game possess in terms of advancement, leveling, and so forth? I’m therefore going to answer some of those questions. Some of them, however, I’ll be keeping secret, and some will be partial answers, since a large part of the game is going to be around uncovering what exactly there is in the game, how to decipher languages, gain access to new areas, find artifacts, and so forth. This entry is therefore going to let you know a bit about the structure, and some hints towards what some of the areas are, and what the overall “arc” of the story and the game are.

The game will consist of nine central dungeons, located in broadly random positions around the world map. Three of them will be “easy”, three reasonably tricky, and three very, very challenging. As long-time readers of this blog will know, Ultima Ratio Regum is not just intended to be a game which is difficult in a game-mechanics sense like other roguelikes – which require you to understand the game’s systems, think tactically about your choices, and balance large numbers of different factors – but also a game that will require the player to think hard about puzzles, riddles, cryptographic languages, and a number of other delicious secrets I’m not going to share yet. Although permadeath, each game is likely to last longer than a game of traditional dungeon-crawling roguelikes, and a significant portion of the game is coming to understand the world intellectually, not just learning how to defeat it mechanically. Much of the world building is important in this regard – noble family mottos might contain clues, for example, whilst city districts might harbour cults that can help you with particular dungeons or distant cities might contain trade routes that help you easily move between them.

The game plan roughly divides into four blocks as shown below. The first block which we’re a good 50%+ through now is the world-building block. This block is coming first because as I’ve developed the game it has become clear it needs to be done in this order. How can NPCs spawn in dungeons without a civ for them to belong to? How can there be any use to money and loot if there’s nobody to trade with? How can you survive for any length of time without people to buy healing items from? Not to mention the fact that a number of the plot details of the world need there to be civilizations in existence that can be affected by your actions in the nine central dungeons. Something I’m going to be announcing later in the year (think around May/June time) once I’ve finished my doctorate might mean Block 1 might be finished in the space of just a year rather than at the current pace (part-timing is tricky), but Block 1 is going to be the priority until the main five points highlighted below are finished. Once “the world” is in place, I’ll then be moving onto Block 2, containing the three easiest dungeons, and also the end-game dungeon. The game will therefore be winnable upon the completion of Block 2. Blocks 3 and 4 are for those of us who like going after our 15 Runes in DCSS, the toughest endings in ADOM and the conducts in Nethack.

Block 1: World-Building

- Town/Village/City Building Interiors
- NPCs, Schedules, Occupations, Conversations.
- Trade, Markets, Shops, Coinage, Mountain/Sea Travel
- Weapons, Armour, Shields, Ammunition, etc
- Combat mechanics, Move Sets, Skills, Stamina.

Block 2: The Early Game

- Dungeon 1, Ziggurats (three small structures, tropics, traps, riddle puzzles)
- Dungeon 2, (one large structure)
- Dungeon 3, Saal’s Cage (one large location)
- End-Game Dungeon

Block 3: The Mid Game

- Dungeon 4, (three small structures)
- Dungeon 5, The Garden of Forking Paths, (one large location)
- Dungeon 6, (one large structure)

Block 4: The End Game

- Dungeon 7, (three small structures)
- Dungeon 8, The Cog of the World (one large location)
- Dungeon 9, (one large structure)

As above, the model of the game is going to be akin to that of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup (I do know what all nine areas are going to be, I just don’t want to reveal/name them all yet). Once you complete any three dungeons, of which naturally the three early-game dungeons are the easiest, you will gain access to the end-game dungeon (akin to the Realm of Zot). You can complete the game there… or keep playing, for the end-game dungeon will serve a purpose that is not just “the final dungeon”, but rather the actions you take there will affect the outside world as well and potentially aid your quest to complete all nine areas. Once you unlock the end-game dungeon, which will happen upon clearing three dungeons, you can close out the game or continue playing to try and seek out a higher-scoring victory. I haven’t even begun to think about the scoring system yet, but it will be very clear how many of the nine dungeons have been cleared when a player completes the game.

I’m also going to say a little about the story. The three primary inspirations for the story are Neal Stephenson, Umberto Eco and most importantly Jorge Borges. The core of the game’s story is basically an exploration of reality – to what extent is reality fixed, and to what extent is it contingent on our beliefs? Is there an external reality or is the universe just what we all “agree” it is? This is particularly relevant when considering Borges’ short story Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius, which is a key inspiration for the game. In the tale a kind of “conspiracy” of intellectuals seek to change what we hold reality to be by imagining a new world that is roughly contiguous with the existing one but with many distinct differences, and that by replacing all records of this world with records of that currently “fictional” world, that world will “become” this – the consensus will be that this new world is the real world, for there will no longer be any records to suggest otherwise, and that therefore ideas and beliefs determine the reality we perceive. I think this is a fascinating idea (and this is partly the academic in me speaking now) and will be reflected within the game. I’ll be saying more about this later, and once the early-game dungeons become fully implemented this will become clearer, but this concept will not just be part of the story but also have an important gameplay aspect later on. So that’s all the plot/game future information for now! Next week I’ll be rounding up the concluding parts of sigils, and then working on families and histories – see you all then.
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thepodger

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1908 on: February 15, 2014, 04:20:53 pm »

Borges and Eco are two authors that always occupy a spot in my top five.
Both, while not quite obscure, are not nearly as widely read as deserved.  True masters of language with a boggling creative scope and genius.  I believe I am going to find a home in URR.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1909 on: February 16, 2014, 12:43:00 am »

Borges and Eco are two authors that always occupy a spot in my top five.
Both, while not quite obscure, are not nearly as widely read as deserved.  True masters of language with a boggling creative scope and genius.  I believe I am going to find a home in URR.

I am in complete agreement (and thanks!). One of my favourite Eco concepts is the library in Name of the Rose - the way it's mapped out is a fascinating idea and there may just be a library in URR's future, though not of quite that sort...
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Man of Paper

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1910 on: February 16, 2014, 08:26:15 am »

So I know the large army command stuff was dropped a good bit back, but the mention of cults being able to assist in dungeons piqued my interest. Of course they'd be able to help in the intellectual sense ("All of us know that a three-headed boar guards the hidden macguffin), but would they be included in the dungeon-diving itself? I can see them getting in the way, and there'd be difficulty in making them move "smart" (i.e. not stepping onto a clearly-marked or obvious trap...speaking of which, perhaps a tool like chalk to mark our path would be neat), but nobody can deny the benefits of having someone else check out that pit o' spikes for you.

With all the travel and stuff it seems we'll be doing, will we be able to set up a base or something like a home, or would we be living out of our inventories as we would most other RLs?
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1911 on: February 16, 2014, 12:12:26 pm »

Will there still be in-game languages in addition in crytography? If you're willing to do it i very much like the idea, especially if it's moddable.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1912 on: February 17, 2014, 12:20:45 am »

So I know the large army command stuff was dropped a good bit back, but the mention of cults being able to assist in dungeons piqued my interest. Of course they'd be able to help in the intellectual sense ("All of us know that a three-headed boar guards the hidden macguffin), but would they be included in the dungeon-diving itself? I can see them getting in the way, and there'd be difficulty in making them move "smart" (i.e. not stepping onto a clearly-marked or obvious trap...speaking of which, perhaps a tool like chalk to mark our path would be neat), but nobody can deny the benefits of having someone else check out that pit o' spikes for you.

With all the travel and stuff it seems we'll be doing, will we be able to set up a base or something like a home, or would we be living out of our inventories as we would most other RLs?

Firstly, re: cults, they're primarily going to have hints and possibly useful items for particular dungeons or hidden minibosses. So there might be a cult for Dungeon X, and if you follow that cult, Dungeon X will end up being a little easier. Still working out the specifics in my head. As for living-out-of-inventories, you raise a very interesting question, and one I hadn't decided on yet. Maybe you'll have a "base" in your civ of choice, but maybe not - perhaps you can hire pack animals to transport your larger inventories? Maybe you do just live out of your inventory? I'm not quite sure yet.

Will there still be in-game languages in addition in crytography? If you're willing to do it i very much like the idea, especially if it's moddable.

Well, the crypto *is* the in-game languages, but as for "living" languages - spoken by civs, not in ruins - I'm not sure. Probably. It won't be moddable though - I'm afraid I don't plan on making the game moddable as that would require a lot of time taken away from actually making the game! But yeah, for languages spoken by civilizations, I might use a percentage system for that, I'm not quite sure yet :). I think a percentage system might work fine there, and would allow for similar civs to have similar languages, which might be cool and interesting.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1913 on: February 17, 2014, 11:02:49 am »

Ah good. I wish you could mod it, if only for the sake of including real world languages.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1914 on: February 20, 2014, 01:47:14 pm »

Ah good. I wish you could mod it, if only for the sake of including real world languages.

Heh, a neat idea, but I think would give a pretty distinct gameplay advantage to some people :).

In other news, I'm going to be presenting at the Canadian Game Studies Association conference this year with a paper on "The Semiotics of Roguelikes". I'll be posting the abstract here in a couple of days, for anyone who is interested.
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1915 on: February 22, 2014, 06:06:15 am »

For those interested, here is the abstract for my roguelikes conference paper: http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/2014/02/22/the-semiotics-of-the-roguelike/
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Ultima Ratio Regum

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1916 on: February 26, 2014, 02:16:26 pm »

Thesis first draft done! Development resumes! Coats of arms 99% finished!

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Neonivek

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1917 on: February 26, 2014, 05:14:39 pm »

Once again thanks Ultima Ratio Regum for contributing to the small force of people managing to pull roguelikes out of their current state of stagnation.

Edit: That sounds wrong somehow. I'll edit it a bit.

Honestly Roguelikes have a lot of untapped potential and I am glad it is starting to get tapped.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 05:57:00 pm by Neonivek »
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Dutchling

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1918 on: February 27, 2014, 03:23:31 am »

I'd say that's no longer true now there's games like Binding of Isaac, FTL, Rogue Legacy, Dungeons of Dredmor, etc.

Not to mention 'actual' roguelikes, which there really are a lot of I think? Unless you only count finished ones of course :P. Not sure if that ever happened~
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Willfor

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Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.4 released!
« Reply #1919 on: February 27, 2014, 03:40:05 am »

Remember you're talking to Neonivek, Dutchling ...

Edit: I should probably mention that I am watching this whole project with great enthusiasm.
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A shape was roughly human, it was only roughly human /
Apparition eyes / Apparition eyes / Knock, apparition, knock / Eyes, apparition eyes /
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