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[Ultima Ratio Regum]

New devblog entry - the role of bosses in Ultima Ratio Regum! Which is to say... well, you'll have to read and find out. All manner of weird and probably-not-wonderful creatures await...

... and another, tiny, hint about the alpha...

http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/2011/11/07/on-bosses/

[Leatra]

Well, I don't expect the Alpha version to be anything big. I'm just curious about the combat system. Like impaling or bleeding out. Things like becoming a bandit leader can come later.

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Well, I don't expect the Alpha version to be anything big. I'm just curious about the combat system. Like impaling or bleeding out. Things like becoming a bandit leader can come later.

Combat and world generation are the two big targets at the moment. Combat is probably about 70% finished (for the alpha, anyway), and world generation is probably around 40% done! Been taking a break from combat to work on the worldgen for the past week or so, so I'm hoping that'll improve significantly over the next week or two too.

[ThtblovesDF]

My only wish is that it isent one of those games which goes "Oh hey, strategy = select all units, right click enemy" or the also common "rock paper scissors, melee-ranged-cav" as only mechanic. I want ambushes, flanking, several different moral stats, cutting off supplys, hungering em out, double agents, fake army sizes, greater reasons - affecting certain morals - like a army using slaves as combat units that you can free (basically a indirect: Your leader charisma vs enemy leaders charisma + slave skill with % bonus of situation (no enemy troops near = good) and so on.

But hey, one can dream. Or learn to code instead of bitch on forums : P

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

My only wish is that it isent one of those games which goes "Oh hey, strategy = select all units, right click enemy" or the also common "rock paper scissors, melee-ranged-cav" as only mechanic. I want ambushes, flanking, several different moral stats, cutting off supplys, hungering em out, double agents, fake army sizes, greater reasons - affecting certain morals - like a army using slaves as combat units that you can free (basically a indirect: Your leader charisma vs enemy leaders charisma + slave skill with % bonus of situation (no enemy troops near = good) and so on.

But hey, one can dream. Or learn to code instead of bitch on forums : P

Well, there's no mouse control, for starters

But I know exactly what you mean. Pretty much everything you listed are things I hope to have implemented at some point! There's no RPS-style combat and you will only be able to control forces by telling whoever is in charge of that platoon/battalion to move their soldiers there. They'll then make a judgment themselves, and each soldier also makes it own judgment when the time comes. You can't 'magically' control units over a distance - you actually need to establish contact with your sub-commanders at a distance to get in touch with and command them. In a way, then, it's an 'army simulator' as well as everything else...

[Clownmite]

Holy crap, this game looks to be amazing. I actually just started programming a game intended to be almost exactly like this, but I feel like I should not even attempt it anymore due to this game being almost exactly what I want.

I'm also using Python + libtcod. What code editor/IDE do you use? I'm using IDLE and it's annoying that it crashes every time I close the libtcod window.

[Leatra]

My only wish is that it isent one of those games which goes "Oh hey, strategy = select all units, right click enemy" or the also common "rock paper scissors, melee-ranged-cav" as only mechanic. I want ambushes, flanking, several different moral stats, cutting off supplys, hungering em out, double agents, fake army sizes, greater reasons - affecting certain morals - like a army using slaves as combat units that you can free (basically a indirect: Your leader charisma vs enemy leaders charisma + slave skill with % bonus of situation (no enemy troops near = good) and so on.

But hey, one can dream. Or learn to code instead of bitch on forums : P

Well, there's no mouse control, for starters

But I know exactly what you mean. Pretty much everything you listed are things I hope to have implemented at some point! There's no RPS-style combat and you will only be able to control forces by telling whoever is in charge of that platoon/battalion to move their soldiers there. They'll then make a judgment themselves, and each soldier also makes it own judgment when the time comes. You can't 'magically' control units over a distance - you actually need to establish contact with your sub-commanders at a distance to get in touch with and command them. In a way, then, it's an 'army simulator' as well as everything else...

Heh. Being able to control everything through a magical screen gets boring after a while. There are some games that try to make it seem logical. In Red Alert 2 it felt like (or game tried to make you feel like) you were logging in to a battlefield-screen-thing. When I played that game for the first time, that's when I realized the weirdness of being able to control everything like a god in strategy games.

There are two military ranks in strategy games. You -the player- who controls everything and gives orders. And all others who do the fightning. I hope this game will be a lot different with a hierarchic command system.

When it comes to command hierarchy, there are lots of things to give attention to...
1. Chain of command. Commander doesn't do everything. Soldiers of the Squad A doesn't answer to the leader of the Squad B and things like that...
2. Communication. We didn't have cellphones or telegraphs in middle ages. Things can turn into a game of Chinese Whispers if you aren't careful.
3. If a high-ranking officer makes a bad call, those who carry the orders out aren't responsible. That high-ranking officer is the one who made the decision and he is the one who is responsible.

A commander isn't responsible for everything and a soldier who executes orders given to him isn't responsible for everything. A cadet doesn't answer to the field marshal. It was all simple in Red Alert 2 right?

"Yes, comrade general"

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Holy crap, this game looks to be amazing. I actually just started programming a game intended to be almost exactly like this, but I feel like I should not even attempt it anymore due to this game being almost exactly what I want.

I'm also using Python + libtcod. What code editor/IDE do you use? I'm using IDLE and it's annoying that it crashes every time I close the libtcod window.

Wow, thank you! Don't let me discourage you, though, URR is still in its early stages
I'm using IDLE at the moment. I'm sure there are better editors, but I've just got used to using it and can't be bothered to change. Once I've got the first alpha out and I then go through making the game more efficient, that might be a logical time to change editor, but I'm more than happy with it for the time being. By the crashing, do you mean when you F5, the window appears, then you close it and it crashes? If so, you want to close the Python shell, not the libtcod window itself!

Heh. Being able to control everything through a magical screen gets boring after a while. There are some games that try to make it seem logical. In Red Alert 2 it felt like (or game tried to make you feel like) you were logging in to a battlefield-screen-thing. When I played that game for the first time, that's when I realized the weirdness of being able to control everything like a god in strategy games.

There are two military ranks in strategy games. You -the player- who controls everything and gives orders. And all others who do the fightning. I hope this game will be a lot different with a hierarchic command system.

When it comes to command hierarchy, there are lots of things to give attention to...
1. Chain of command. Commander doesn't do everything. Soldiers of the Squad A doesn't answer to the leader of the Squad B and things like that...
2. Communication. We didn't have cellphones or telegraphs in middle ages. Things can turn into a game of Chinese Whispers if you aren't careful.
3. If a high-ranking officer makes a bad call, those who carry the orders out aren't responsible. That high-ranking officer is the one who made the decision and he is the one who is responsible.

A commander isn't responsible for everything and a soldier who executes orders given to him isn't responsible for everything. A cadet doesn't answer to the field marshal. It was all simple in Red Alert 2 right?

"Yes, comrade general"

*Exactly*. In all strategy games - even those set, say, in medieval times, when you wouldn't have had instant communication - the commander somehow has total omnipotent control over their forces.

1) Yep. You give orders to your commanders, who then spread it around to their lieutenants, and so on and so forth. Obviously the incentive here is to recruit competent commanders who will be better at relaying your orders and managing the battlefield than others.
2) I think it'll be interesting to see how orders to far parts of your army in a battle play out. Due to the delay in getting a message to them, I think those commanders will take more autonomy upon themselves, definitely.
3) People in your army - as with any army - will be a lot more useful if they respect those giving the orders. If your subordinate does something foolish, I think you'll have options about how to deal with this, and the repercussions this will have for the rest of your army.

Red Alert 2 - what a great game! I prefer the earlier classic C&Cs, but RA2 had a certain something...

[Johnss]

it looks like text based...

id rather have some grafics stuff that i can actualy see for what they are....

try this one
http://roguesurvivor.blogspot.com/p/download.html

_{am i allowed to post links?}

[Aklyon]

Roguelikes are generally text-based, Johnss. graphics usually are just an extra add-on, like DF graphics packs.

[klingon13524]

it looks like text based...

id rather have some grafics stuff that i can actualy see for what they are....

try this one
http://roguesurvivor.blogspot.com/p/download.html

_{am i allowed to post links?}

You really ARE an escaped lunatic...

[ChairmanPoo]

In all strategy games - even those set, say, in medieval times, when you wouldn't have had instant communication - the commander somehow has total omnipotent control over their forces.

There's at least one exception: in Centurion: Defender of Rome, your command over troops was limited by the general's "voice".

[gimlet]

Panther Games Airborne Assault series has this.  From their blurb:
"To help the player control all his units, we implement a Chain of Command. As in real armies, your units are organized in a hierarchy. Each unit has a commander and a staff, each with their own capacity to command and manage the units under them. You, the player, can assign a task to any unit in the chain of command. The artificial intelligence (AI) controlling the unit will then assess the task, develop a plan and give orders to its subordinates. In turns, they will develop their own plan and issue their own orders down the line.
So you do not have to give an order to each or every unit under your command."

Also Orders Delay:
"Conquest of the Aegean has orders delay that applies a time delay to the delivery of orders to simulate the time taken by commanders and their staff to receive, process and send orders. As in real life the amount of time varies with the size of the force and the efficiency of its commanders and staff. With one minute time intervals, we can simulate a wide range of order delay periods from a few minutes to many hours.

In a typical operational level turn based system you have two to four hour turns so your options for varying the order delay period are minimal. You can't adequately differentiate between efficient commands and those that aren't. And yet in real life this difference wins battles. Getting inside your opponents decision making cycle means you can gain the initiative. You can have your forces moving before he can respond adequately. Your opponent ends up always responding and always too late to effectively counter you."

Pretty good games, I am slowly working my way through the series.

[Clownmite]

By the crashing, do you mean when you F5, the window appears, then you close it and it crashes? If so, you want to close the Python shell, not the libtcod window itself!

Yeah, I was following the python + libtcod tutorial, and they mentioned there was a specific problem with IDLE that caused a crash on trying to exit (so you'd press Esc, and it would just hang), but after looking at the forums this morning, I saw that by adding "libtcod.console_delete (None)" to the end of the program, it stopped the hang.

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

it looks like text based...

id rather have some grafics stuff that i can actualy see for what they are....

Er... yeah? As people say, roguelikes generally are. I prefer text to tiled graphics, myself, by a long way, though I might put in a way to change tileset. We'll see.

There's at least one exception: in Centurion: Defender of Rome, your command over troops was limited by the general's "voice".

Each unit has a commander and a staff, each with their own capacity to command and manage the units under them. You, the player, can assign a task to any unit in the chain of command. The artificial intelligence (AI) controlling the unit will then assess the task, develop a plan and give orders to its subordinates. In turns, they will develop their own plan and issue their own orders down the line.

These sounds pretty damned close to what I'm after, really. Perfect command never occurs, but you can at least try and get competent people in your army! I mean, I won't deliberately build in incompetence or anything like that (that would quickly be rather unenjoyable), but the AI will still need to interpret your orders and weigh it against their self-preservation, own motives/agendas, etc. Basically, unless you're a commander who is a) not feeding his army, b) not paying his army, and c) getting them killed, you'll be fine.

In a typical operational level turn based system you have two to four hour turns so your options for varying the order delay period are minimal. You can't adequately differentiate between efficient commands and those that aren't. And yet in real life this difference wins battles. Getting inside your opponents decision making cycle means you can gain the initiative. You can have your forces moving before he can respond adequately. Your opponent ends up always responding and always too late to effectively counter you."

Pretty good games, I am slowly working my way through the series.

Interesting. I've been having some debates with friends about whether to put something similar in, or whether have orders acted on/distributed immediately once those orders are received by whoever they're being sent to. I'm leaning towards that one - I think getting the orders out thee introduces enough of a gap anyway, and should give you enough room to get 'ahead' of your foes by cutting off their messengers, acting quickly, etc.

By the crashing, do you mean when you F5, the window appears, then you close it and it crashes? If so, you want to close the Python shell, not the libtcod window itself!

Yeah, I was following the python + libtcod tutorial, and they mentioned there was a specific problem with IDLE that caused a crash on trying to exit (so you'd press Esc, and it would just hang), but after looking at the forums this morning, I saw that by adding "libtcod.console_delete (None)" to the end of the program, it stopped the hang.

Ah, cool. I will chuck that in, though I suspect it might be unnecessary once I go to the pain of .exe-ing it