Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 194 195 [196] 197 198 ... 222

Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 626762 times)

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2925 on: September 19, 2016, 02:17:17 pm »

These are all very cool ideas, especially the little bit of flavour text - I naturally also intend to add some when you enter towns, cities, entering certain buildings, certain floors of certain buildings, etc. It'll be awesome, but naturally it goes in the "non-essential" category for now...
Logged

Skynet

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2926 on: September 26, 2016, 06:33:30 pm »

Quote
Q: Will URR have sound?

A: Sound no, but music… maybe? Quite a few people have expressed interest in writing music for the game, so this might happen.

Jukedeck is a website that can generate music on-demand based on criteria that you specify. It's free to use so long as you give them credit (though you can pay 99 cents per song for a royalty-free license if you don't like giving them credit).

You could theoretically generate hundreds of different songs, and then manually tag them as being associated with certain cultural traits ("This song kinda sounds like something an 'Imperialist' civilization might prefer"). As a result, each civilization comes with their own "unique" theme song. It won't quite be procedurally-generated (you have already generated the songs ahead of time), but it'd be interesting enough.

Now about those few people who are interested in writing music? The worst-case scenario is that those few people are now unemployed thanks to Jukedeck. The best-case scenario is that these people could be redirected towards producing music for the key non-generated aspects of the game, such as the main plot where you track down the conspiracy...(unless the conspiracy itself is procedurally generated!) Or, you know, you could split the difference and have human-generated songs mixed in with the computer-generated songs...and see if people can tell the difference.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 06:36:45 pm by Skynet »
Logged

Mephansteras

  • Bay Watcher
  • Forger of Civilizations
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2927 on: September 27, 2016, 11:31:18 am »

Huh, that's a really cool website. Seems like a great resource for small game devs.
Logged
Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
Come play Mafia with us!
"Let us maintain our chill composure." - Toady One

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2928 on: September 28, 2016, 05:45:40 pm »

Jukedeck is a website that can generate music on-demand based on criteria that you specify. It's free to use so long as you give them credit (though you can pay 99 cents per song for a royalty-free license if you don't like giving them credit).

Not to sound argumentative, but I'm not too impressed with Jukedeck and it's not really alllll that suitable in my opinion.

There has been software (things like ACID) around since the 90s which just has loops that pretty much always fit together and will snap to tempo and key. For something like jukedeck you'd just say 'if 'aggressive' increase tempo and pick loops from the 'hard' folder'. Jukedeck seems pretty slim pickings as well, as you can only pick from about three sub-'types' per genre - nice if you need some placeholder stuff but it doesn't really do much, especially for the URR setting.

For procedurally generated music there are some much more interesting things you can do which take little work. Things like procedurally generated music matrices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(music)), and just broken chords/arpeggios around the circle of fifths would work nicely. Going further, most cultures have their own scales - there's tons to work from (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_scales_and_modes) and you could just implement each civ having a particular scale of their own and have an incredible amount of very different sounding procedurally generated music to help bring each culture more to life.

As you said Skynet, the key to making this great would be to have the music embedded in the culture - certain civilizations tend to gravitate towards certain instruments, so you'd get certain types of music and sounds dependent on that as well.

Overall, I think music is an important part to have in the game - it's as central to a culture as art or clothing, and it's something that's hardly ever explored in games. More than that, I think it'd help the player become a lot more attached - having a civ that has music you really enjoy would obviously make you want to spend more time there for instance.
 

Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Skynet

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2929 on: September 29, 2016, 05:19:56 pm »

If URR is interested in writing unique code to generate music, that's fine by me. It's also okay if URR decides to hold off on procedurally-generated music, simply due to the desire to focus on non-musical parts of the game.

The reason I suggested Jukedeck is simply due to my preference of reusing resources whenever possible. Jukedeck's program already exist, and while we can make it more "interesting", it takes a lot more work (especially due to the need to research music generation), and the amount of work being spent here in this field may not be productive, especially with a huge backlog of other features to implement. Jukedeck is "good enough" for generating useful placeholder music that can then be associated to the varying civilizations.
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2930 on: September 29, 2016, 06:32:53 pm »

PCG music - really interesting discussion, I'll have to ponder it... but in principle, I'm definitely interested in adding PCG music.

In the mean time: any of you roguelikers at TwitchCon?!

Logged

Micro102

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2931 on: September 30, 2016, 09:41:02 am »

Can't download this right now, but it's got 200 pages of comments and I can't figure out what type of game it is.

Why am I seeing 2 different graphic styles? Is it a small party game and if so why am I seeing references to armies? Is it just a different type of DF adventure mode?

Basically, sell this game to me.
Logged

NJW2000

  • Bay Watcher
  • You know me. What do I know?
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2932 on: September 30, 2016, 11:32:54 am »

RE: artstyles: the gameplay art is on the lines of DF/Nethack/Whatever (ASCII etc) but when you look at a person, object, picture, etc, you get a (procedurally generated) ASCII image that's a picture rather than part of a diagram.

RE: Small party game: people going with you may be added at some point, but for now its just you. However, there is meant to be "world activation", like in DF, in which historical figures, armies, groups etc are in certain places doing certain things, and sometimes moving around, during the game.


RE: DF Adventure mode: very broadly speaking, it is pretty similar, BUT: I think the main aim will in the end to find something out or uncover some sort of procedurally generated conspiracy. The designer is interested in the works of Umberto Eco, so if you've read any of them, it might give you an idea of the sort of thing he wants to simulate. Also, there's no fighting or quests now, but mostly just talking and looking at things.


Of course, the designer and people more knowledgeable about the game will be able to give better answers than this.

Logged
One wheel short of a wagon

Zireael

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2933 on: September 30, 2016, 11:38:33 am »

This Jukedeck thing sounds very interesting, will have to check it out!
Logged

Dorsidwarf

  • Bay Watcher
  • [INTERSTELLAR]
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2934 on: September 30, 2016, 03:32:12 pm »

Can't download this right now, but it's got 200 pages of comments and I can't figure out what type of game it is.

Why am I seeing 2 different graphic styles? Is it a small party game and if so why am I seeing references to armies? Is it just a different type of DF adventure mode?

Basically, sell this game to me.

The game has undergone a colossal frame-shift from the start, where it was planned to be a roguelike high-fantasy strategy game, and is now a game of social analysis, unwinding the past of a procedurally generated continent to unveil a conspiracy to re-write history.


Edit: also there's no real gameplay downloadable yet, only what is effectively a walking simulator through an empty world. I advise reading the URR blog archives instead of the thread, they're more coherent.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 03:33:53 pm by Dorsidwarf »
Logged
Quote from: Rodney Ootkins
Everything is going to be alright

Scoops Novel

  • Bay Watcher
  • Talismanic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2935 on: October 22, 2016, 07:55:46 pm »

What do you think about facial expression?
Logged
Reading a thinner book

Arcjolt (useful) Chilly The Endoplasm Jiggles

Hums with potential    a flying minotaur

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2936 on: October 27, 2016, 10:58:08 am »

Everything NJW and Doris said is correct! That's a very good description/explanation.

In the mean time: I'm blogging every now and then, but still just so swamped (and unhappy) at work. Should emerge from this towards the middle of November. 0.8 is 95% done, and it's infuriating that I didn't get it out before this massive workload hit, but there you go. I'll be back as soon as I can everyone, I promise :)
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Games academic and "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2937 on: December 10, 2016, 05:04:17 pm »

After several months where I just haven’t been able to find even a couple of hours to code, I am extremely pleased to report that I’ve managed to get through this incredible glut of academic work and emerge into the wonderful fields on the other side. As such, this coming week I am now officially resuming development on 0.8 in my spare time – which is still not extensive, but at least I have some of it now, with more to come as the start of next calendar year comes to pass – with the objective of getting 0.8 polished off and finally released in the next few months.

So: where were we, and what remains to be done?

The State of 0.8

0.8 is, by far, the biggest release I have ever done and the biggest release I ever intend to do. Had I known that I’d run into this unexpected delay towards the end of the release, I would definitely not have tried to develop the speech systems alongside everything else and I would released everything except speech as 0.8, then released speech and conversations as 0.9, but as it stands, there are several major parts of 0.8:

NPCs

The current version available here on the site, 0.7, has a massively detailed world devoid of people. This has now been addressed, and there are millions of people – all procedurally generated, with the important ones stored and tracked, and the less important ones spawning and despawning to give a sense of the crowds the player moves through – that can be met in the in-game world. This, obviously, is one of the biggest changes to and developments in the game, and is the last major “system” that needs to be in place, and – via the conversation system – marks, finally, the beginning of actual gameplay! Although a lot of coding was required to keep track of NPCs at various resolutions, near the player, far from the player, inside buildings, outside buildings, inside or outside buildings that hadn’t been spawned yet, and so on and so forth, we finally got there. All NPC systems are finished, and only a few tiny bugs remain (found by my kind playtesters) to be fixed prior to a release of 0.8.





Clothing and Face Generation

Alongside these NPCs we have clothing and face generation. Clothing generation can offer many millions of variations of clothing styles, which the game then varies in four levels – “lower”, “middle”, “upper”, “ruler” – and distributes appropriately to NPCs. You can then view the clothing of anyone you run into, and the player of course now also starts with a set of clothing appropriate to the civilization they start in. Face generation, meanwhile, creates a set of genetic and cultural variations which can produce high hundreds of millions of faces, I believe, allowing you to make judgements about both the geographic and national/religious origins of people you encounter. Both of these systems are fully integrated and finished.



Buildings, Districts, etc

An entirely new, massively, and massively important class of buildings have been added: castles. The aesthetics of these vary according to their civilisation of origin (as do all buildings) whilst what is found inside varies according to the ideological and religious orientations of that nation; you’ll find altars, banners, barracks, torture chambers, dungeons, libraries, studies, and a million other things in there (alongside a relevant set of NPCs to inhabit them and move around within them). In districts, meanwhile, I’ve gone over and changed a bunch of the generation algorithms, fixed some unusual edge cases which could sometimes appear, made sure NPCs can always path to where they need to path to, and basically ensured that districts do function correctly in all the ways they have to. All castles and district changes are in place with the exception of a few tiny bugs to do with castle generation that need to be resolved before release.



Speech and Conversations

This is the final one, and the biggest one, since it marks the first meaningful element of gameplay being introduced into the game – which is to say, talking to people, questioning them, acquiring information from, presenting oneself in certain ways, deciding which topics to pursue, and all the other conversation mechanics and dynamics I’ve talked about in blog posts before this one. Speech generation is partly complete, and conversation mechanics are partly complete.



What next?

Therefore, there are basically three objectives left to cover before I can release 0.8, each of which is probably approximately of around equal size:

1) Finish Speech Generation

The primary objective is, obviously, finishing the generation of all sentences and potential responses. Now, you’ll remember from some of the final blog entries before I went on the coding break that I was introducing some more complex speech systems, but I’ve decided it’s more important to get 0.8 than it is to implement all the speech dynamics I have in mind. As such, I’m toning back some of these ambitions for the 0.8 release, and whatever kinds of sentences and comments don’t make it into 0.8 will make it into the (small and compact) 0.9 that should appear quite soon afterwards. Nevertheless, there are lots of sentence archetypes that need finishing, lots of sentence components, lots of variations for ideologies/ geographies/ cultures/ religions/ etc that need to be implemented, and then – most importantly – I need to make it all actually generates correctly! There’s so much content in there that some weird grammar mistakes are bound to crop up, and I’m sure some spelling mistakes have slipped in too, all of which need to be fixed.

2) Finish Conversation Mechanics

Right now actual “conversations” don’t really happen, since the AI you’re talking to just produces a response without, for instance, asking you something back. As above, since I’m not putting in every possible sentence form in this release, I’m also not putting in ever possible conversation mechanic into this release, but I still want things to flow quite well and to be quite interesting to deal with. Even though I hope to get 0.9 out fairly speedily, this is still going to be a version a lot of people are going to play for a lot of time, and I want to make sure there’s enough there to reward the wait, even if 20% of the mechanics I want will just have to wait until a later version when I can take the time to really perfect them.

3) Finish all Tweaks, Fix Bugs, Optimisations, etc

Not much to say here – I just have a list of things that need fixing, and I’m going to fix them. Now, some of these I’m going to leave for 0.9, which is going to be a far shorter release anyway, though it’ll only be the bugs that aren’t game-breaking, or are perhaps entirely aesthetic, that I’ll leave until then. Anything critical, or anything that is definitely going to be noticed, needs to be fixed now.

Therefore:

It has been very hard on me to have to stop programming for a period and cease, however temporarily, working on a project that I care so much about and means so much to me. I know some people will have drifted away, I know the blog has lost some readership in the last few months, and – chances are – some people will have seen this as proof that a big project like this is doomed to fail! But worry not: we’re back, and the ramp back up to the speed I was developing last summer will take a little while, but it’s going to happen. My schedule and my life more generally will be freeing up gradually over the coming months, to some extent Jan/Feb/March, and even more so April/May/June/July, and that spare time will be going into URR. Next summer (much like last summer) in particular will give me ample time to code, and I’ll certainly be taking advantage of it. I’m starting now to keep the code open, to check in on what needs doing, remind myself where I left off, and to start slowly but surely developing the speech content first and foremost, as that’s certainly the easiest thing to get back into the swing with. URRpdates in the coming weeks might be smaller than normal, but they will still have something to show. URR is back, and the final push towards the first gameplay release is now – finally – on.
Logged

Scoops Novel

  • Bay Watcher
  • Talismanic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2938 on: December 10, 2016, 06:28:52 pm »

Logged
Reading a thinner book

Arcjolt (useful) Chilly The Endoplasm Jiggles

Hums with potential    a flying minotaur

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2939 on: December 11, 2016, 10:04:17 am »

Awesome news and I'm really excited to see what comes along next!

Re: lost readership/people drifting away:
This happens with so many projects, even when the developers are working hard behind the scenes.

The key to preventing this is communication - even a one liner blog update every week or so to say 'been working on some name gen stuff' is all it takes, even if that 'working' was really just you jotting down a few ideas whilst waiting for the bus.

So many projects just lose traction and support over time because a lot of projects just suddenly stop mid way through. I can't count the amount of projects I've been interested in and invested time in for them to suddenly just fold without any notice. Again, it doesn't need to be much, but I'd really encourage you to just send out a few lines or two every week to keep people updated on progress.
Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.
Pages: 1 ... 194 195 [196] 197 198 ... 222