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[Jacob/Lee]

Dwarves seem to be a perfectly good race once you get past the strange, omnipresent deities that order them to do crazy shit. Let's take a look at their ethics:

Morally speaking, dwarven ethics most closely resemble human and elven ethics, agree somewhat with kobold and animal-people ethics, and disagree strongly with goblin ethics. Unlike elves, dwarves find the devouring of dead enemies unthinkable, and will not butcher or consume intelligent beings (goblins see this as a personal matter). They are entirely opposed to torture of any sort for any reason, unlike elves, humans, kobolds and animal-people (who find certain forms of torture acceptable) and especially goblins, who find all torture acceptable. Dwarves tolerate animal trophies but shun those who keep trophies of sapient beings, and find those who keep trophies of other dwarves appalling. Dwarves find the killing of animals, enemies and plants completely acceptable, unlike elves, kobolds and animal-people. An exception to this is the killing of neutral beings, which is okay as long as the killing had been officially ordered. A dwarf found to have participated in assault, theft, trespassing or vandalism will be seriously punished; some crimes such as killing other dwarves, breaking oaths, slavery and treason are punishable by death. On the other hand, lying is considered only a personal matter.

As a matter of fact, they seem to be the most morally correct of any of the races. They don't torture, cannibalize, keep trophies of sapients, or kill anything that they don't require for food or is a threat. Humans are very close to this, except they allow slavery and a couple other things. Goblins are the total opposite, the evilest race in the world.

[UltraValican]

Dwarves seem to be a perfectly good race once you get past the strange, omnipresent deities that order them to do crazy shit. Let's take a look at their ethics:

Morally speaking, dwarven ethics most closely resemble human and elven ethics, agree somewhat with kobold and animal-people ethics, and disagree strongly with goblin ethics. Unlike elves, dwarves find the devouring of dead enemies unthinkable, and will not butcher or consume intelligent beings (goblins see this as a personal matter). They are entirely opposed to torture of any sort for any reason, unlike elves, humans, kobolds and animal-people (who find certain forms of torture acceptable) and especially goblins, who find all torture acceptable. Dwarves tolerate animal trophies but shun those who keep trophies of sapient beings, and find those who keep trophies of other dwarves appalling. Dwarves find the killing of animals, enemies and plants completely acceptable, unlike elves, kobolds and animal-people. An exception to this is the killing of neutral beings, which is okay as long as the killing had been officially ordered. A dwarf found to have participated in assault, theft, trespassing or vandalism will be seriously punished; some crimes such as killing other dwarves, breaking oaths, slavery and treason are punishable by death. On the other hand, lying is considered only a personal matter.

As a matter of fact, they seem to be the most morally correct of any of the races. They don't torture, cannibalize, keep trophies of sapients, or kill anything that they don't require for food or is a threat. Humans are very close to this, except they allow slavery and a couple other things. Goblins are the total opposite, the evilest race in the world.

Looking at Goblin ethics they seem not to care what you do.

[EveryZig]

Unlike elves, dwarves find the devouring of dead enemies unthinkable, and will not butcher or consume intelligent beings (goblins see this as a personal matter).

My dwarves will cannibalize on their own in some situations (if the part has been detached, ☼Goblin Tallow Roasts☼ are on the menu).

A dwarf found to have participated in assault, theft, trespassing or vandalism will be seriously punished; some crimes such as killing other dwarves, breaking oaths, slavery and treason are punishable by death.

Unless the dwarf is angry enough. Then killing/vandalism are let off with more minor penalties (see, tantrums).

[Toady One]

(I removed a derail)

[Corneria]

A philosophy 101 thread? Sweet!

[EveryZig]

A philosophy 101 thread? Sweet!

Except without the solipsism.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I still go with my theory Goblins are going for the Greater Good, which happens to require converting children of other races to heir philosophy in case all the goblins die. They're like WH40k Tau, except that the goblins are "villains" while the Tau are among the three races closest to being protagonists...making elves dark eldar, humans chaos, and dwarves orks? And kobolds...I don't have a clue and should stop making extended metaphors to subjects I barely know about?

Anyways, my idea is that a goblin will not hesitate to perform a small evil for a big good. S big good as the goblin sees it, not the dwarves killing the goblin.

[King DZA]

A lot of interesting points have been made. Unfortunately, it keeps seeming to come back to the case of the children.
Are goblins cruel toward other races because they're pure evil, or because they see them as too far gone to be helped? Are they truly doing what's right, or are they simply overzealous and misinformed?
They may see torture as acceptable, but we can't say if that is because they enjoy it, or they feel it is the only way to get vital information. We can say they are just evil by nature, but then again the other races aren't exactly in line for a Nobel Peace Prize either.

This conundrum would be as good as solved if we could just discover what happens to the kids. But due to that damned bug, this seems nigh impossible. I've heard that this does not apply to children snatched in worldgen, though. Is this true?

If so, it could be possible to search through Legends, locate as many of the children as possible, and see how the majority of their lives turned out. If nothing else, this could at least give some important insight into the nature of goblins.

To be honest, i wasn't even aware children could be stolen during worldgen, though...

[kotekzot]

[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]. Just sayin'.

[Necro910]

[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_‼FUN‼:ACCEPTABLE]. Just sayin'.

Dorf'd

[Leatra]

There is no stable 'Good' or 'Evil'. It depends on your point of view. Nobody would say "I'm evil" because we all think we are good but other people might think otherwise. A random guy just won't shout "Muahahaha! FOR EVIL! SLAUGHTER THEM ALL!" That happens only in movies, books and medieval fantasy.

Wait...

[person012345]

Looking at Goblin ethics they seem not to care what you do.

This.

The Goblin ethical code is not evil. It is nonexistant. Every goblin, just like every human and every dwarf, will most likely have a different idea of what exactly is right and wrong. It just that their society takes a very liberal view of justice and ethics, everything is ok with the law and you deal with your own problems yourself (someone trying to kill you? Well then deal with it yourself, why waste taxpayer money on such petty things). It's what (real) anarchists are arguing for IRL.

[Wannazzaki]

Goblins do things for the evulz. And so do my dorfs under my command. That and i kinda changed their ethics to be a hybrid of goblin and elf to prevent loads of lovely corpses going to waste.

[Ibid Straydrink]

My Mama says that goblins are ornery because they got all them fortresses and no dwarfs.

Think about it, folks. Why do goblins dwell in "dark" fortresses? What gives a fortress life, the life which theirs always seem to lack? What makes it enjoyable, what brings !!FUN!! and joy to it's inhabitants and sadistic player-overseers alike- what's the name of this game..?


Dwarf Fortress.

That, is why goblins kidnap dwarves.

[Loud Whispers]

Can we just come to a conclusion that goblins want to start brainwashed colonies, are goblin batmen or complete dicks?