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[i2amroy]

Did a little checking of the [IMMOBILE_LAND] tag in an attempt to create a creature that lived on land but couldn't move (think living tree style). General results show that the [IMMOBILE_LAND] tag only functions on [AQUATIC] creatures that are currently drowning. If, for example, the creature has the [NOBREATHE] token, then [IMMOBILE_LAND] will cease to function.
Got some more info on negative values. While having a negative value appears to be possible, it seems that though the game accepts negative weight/density tokens, anything that is negative is simply reduced to 0, as it affects neither dwarf in fortress speed, adventurer speed, or trader hauling amounts.

[i2amroy]

More !!testing information!!
This time my subject was syndromes in an attempt to fill in the holes in our knowledge of how some of their aspects function.

Syndrome !!SCIENCE!!
Method: Repeated controlled fights between a helmet snake and a dwarf in the arena. The helmet snake would strike the dwarf once and then wait until it died. The syndrome was then edited before each battle. There was also a small side-test where I used a modified cave floater and a dwarf to test inhaled syndromes.

Findings:
1)The LOCALIZED tag in a syndrome causes the game to ignore any BP:BY_XX tokens in the syndrome. This means that any intended targets of a syndrome (such as causing a victim's heart to rot away) are ignored.

2)The LOCALIZED tag then forces the game to attempt to apply the syndrome to whatever body part is infected by the syndrome (bitten, brought into contact with, etc.). This means that in the example of the heart rotting syndrome above the game would now make wherever was bitten (right hand for example) rot away instead of their heart.

4)The IMPAIR_FUNCTION syndrome only applies to organs so if the LOCALIZED tag attempts to apply it to another body part (such as a right hand) it has no effect. However, if the "infected" body part is another organ (eye, lung, etc.) then the syndrome is applied to that organ.

5)Body parts with the [FLIER] tag are not organs and are not effected by the IMPAIR_FUNCTION syndrome

3)Inhaled syndromes have no "infected" part attached to them. As such if an inhaled syndrome is given the LOCALIZED tag, it will not do anything at all.

4)Non-targetable syndromes (Fever, Cough blood, Vomit blood, Unconsciousness, Drowsiness, and Dizziness) ignore all BP:BY_XX and LOCALIZED tokens and continue to function normally though the error log remains empty.

5)Multiple body parts can be targeted in the same syndrome by placing additional BP:BY_XX tokens. (Example: a syndrome with BP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN:BP:BY_CATEGORY:LUNG:ALL would affect the skin on all body parts and affect every tissue in the lungs)

6)Negative values in syndromes, though accepted by the raw parser, are treated as zero values. As such a syndrome with a negative severity will have zero effect. This furthers the idea that negative values are treated as zeroes except in a few special cases.

7)If the PEAK:X value of a syndrome is set lower then the START:X value, then when the START:X time is reached the syndrome is instantly applied at its peak value.

8)One tick in the object arena mode is equal to 72 seconds, the same value as one tick in fortress mode.

9)Syndrome time values are given in ticks, not seconds. So though an adventurer experiences a syndrome in the same number of ticks, they actually experience the effects of the syndrome 72x faster in seconds then a dwarf in fortress mode.

[Deon]

This is very useful. I've never tested inhaled syndromes with LOCALIZED token. Good finding!

[flabort]

What about an artifact made of materials with negative values and worth?

Although most of the values apparently default to 0, like you claim, if "Worthless Rock" is worth -200, and the Worthless Rock Goblet "ViolentCarp" was, say, "Made of Worthless Rock and encrusted with cut green glass. On it is an image of ViolentCarp the Worthless Rock Goblet in Worthless Rock"...
Any idea how much or how little that goblet would be worth? Any idea of how to induce that for !!SCIENCE!!?

[i2amroy]

Well because values are one of the only things that I've found so far that actually treat negative values as such, I would assume that it would take the default value of the rock (-100), multiply it by the value modifier of crafts (x10, so -1000), multiply it by the artifact multiplier (x120, so -120,000), and then add to it the value of any non-negative valued decorations (say 30,000) for a final value (-90,000 in this example).

[Meph]

You could add negative material value to Garbage, Corpses, Body parts, refuse, rotten food, xxclohtingxx and generally any unwanted stuff. That would decrease the worth of a dirty, cluttered fortress and keep migrants away. I'd say a useful feature, your fortress is cluttered with dead bodys and junk after an invasion, and you get very few migrants...

 

[i2amroy]

So this thread is a little old, but I figured that it was probably the best way for me to insure that everyone could see the results.
I just did a little investigating into the CE_SPEED_CHANGE syndrome. Here is my findings:

Methods:
1) Change the Giant Desert Scorpion syndrome to the CE_SPEED_CHANGE effect
2) Sting a dwarf in the area
3) Switch to dwarf and note change in speed when syndrome has an effect

Results:
1) There are two speed changes available "SPEED_PERC:percentage" and "SPEED_ADD:number"
2) "SPEED_PERC:percentage" appears to multiply an creature's in-game speed by approximately a given percentage. (951 speed dwarf became 499 instead of 475.5; not sure what was causing this difference.)
3) "SPEED_ADD:number" appears to modify the invisible [SPEED:XX] token created by a creature's agility. This means that higher numbers give slower in-game speeds. Negative numbers were accepted in this token, and if the creature's speed was attempted to be set lower then 0 it becomes 0 (instead of crashing, which is good).
4) The lowest in-game speed obtainable with this syndrome is 99.
5) The highest in-game speed obtainable with this syndrome is 10,000. (Potentially the speed that creatures with [SPEED:0] are set to?)

Conclusions:
1) You can make speed changes that are not dependent upon the creature's original speed with SPEED_ADD
2) No time stop rays, though adding a slow speed could make creatures that could potentially ignore a muscular paralysis still be at least slowed by the syndrome.

Further Questions:
1) Are 99 and 10,000 the min/max speed limits in the game? Could you potentially make a creature slower or faster with the [SPEED:XX] token?
2) What else affects "SPEED_PERC:percentage"? Why doesn't it directly multiply in-game speed?
3) What is the exact equation that determines how SPEED_ADD affects creatures of a given speed? What about of a given speed/agility?

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Research thread eh?

I might have to dust off then rework my notes on PET to MAIN-RACE (in this case dog to a dwarf) and post the findings here

Also you should add Di's PET tag research Dwarven Cognitive Science


And my research into the NERVOUS for Bodyparts, I got some sicence here with my Advanced Bone System

But I'm proud of my "Dwarven Breeder" pet creation and ABS

[Darekun]

(951 speed dwarf became 499 instead of 475.5; not sure what was causing this difference.)

<snip>

1) Are 99 and 10,000 the min/max speed limits in the game? Could you potentially make a creature slower or faster with the [SPEED:XX] token?
2) What else affects "SPEED_PERC:percentage"? Why doesn't it directly multiply in-game speed?
3) What is the exact equation that determines how SPEED_ADD affects creatures of a given speed? What about of a given speed/agility?

It looks like much of this error is related to the "unity portion" of raw-scale speed.

When a creature acts, that takes one tick(100% of a tick). That's the unity portion. Then, the creature's raw-scale speed determines how long until it can take another tick action. That's the non-unity portion.

A creature with in-game speed of 951 has raw-scale speed of about 951(I assume that's why you picked the number); 1000^2/951 = 1051.5247108307, 1051.5247108307-100 = 951.5247108307, either 951 or 952. Slowing the creature down by a factor of 2 doesn't halve its in-game speed, it doubles its raw-scale speed; 951.5247108307*2 = 1903.0494216614, 1903.0494216614+100 = 2003.0494216614, 1000^2/2003.0494216614 = 499.238805186626.

I suspect it uses a rollover-and-reset counter to time the non-unity portion, and thus a negative number is equivalent to zero without having to bother checking for it.

My guess would be syndromes modify the aggregate raw-scale speed, particularly since we've seen stacking limits before; in that case, creature [SPEED:] combined with individual agility would be modified by SPEED_ADD. But it's just a guess.



Re negative weights and hauling, I suspect zero weight and negative weight can't be distinguished by hauling speed without further manipulation; you might try adding a slade-like material and having the hauler wear enough clothes/armor made of it to slow down their hauling. Hauling negative-weight stones may then restore their speed, up to their unmodified speed.

[i2amroy]

I would believe that they modify raw speed as well, I just didn't know enough of how raw speed works at the given moment to make a guess at the math. If we do think that they both modify raw speed, another thing to look at would be if both SPEED_PREC and SPEED_ADD are applied then which one is applied first or which takes precedence over the other. I do know that if both are applied one of them will always take precedence over the other, but as I said I didn't know enough of the math to tell whether it multiplied by the percentage first or added to the number first.

Also for my tests into negative weight I came to the "below zero sets to zero" idea when I noticed that it had no effect upon trading weight limits. So far this has also seemed to hold true in other areas as well (setting speeds to below zero is equal to zero AFAIK). If you want to go and test any of this feel free to go ahead though!

[narhiril]

Did a little checking of the [IMMOBILE_LAND] tag in an attempt to create a creature that lived on land but couldn't move (think living tree style). General results show that the [IMMOBILE_LAND] tag only functions on [AQUATIC] creatures that are currently drowning. If, for example, the creature has the [NOBREATHE] token, then [IMMOBILE_LAND] will cease to function.

Try [IMMOBILE].

[i2amroy]

Did a little checking of the [IMMOBILE_LAND] tag in an attempt to create a creature that lived on land but couldn't move (think living tree style). General results show that the [IMMOBILE_LAND] tag only functions on [AQUATIC] creatures that are currently drowning. If, for example, the creature has the [NOBREATHE] token, then [IMMOBILE_LAND] will cease to function.

Try [IMMOBILE].

The original research of that particular study was from 31.X, which was before the [IMMOBILE] tag existed. At that point the only existing tag was [IMMOBILE_LAND], which functions as stated in the results.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Finally found this again (search function using "science" has this on the 3rd page  )

Anyways, some more SCIENCE on LIMBS

As od 34.07+ LIMB and JOINT parts now respect STRUCTUAL tags making my ABS (Advanced Bone Structure) only useful for creatures that have LIMBs that you don't want grappling (grabs the human by the toe with his upper right arm) more on LIMB effects

LIMB effects:
I found that any LIMB bodypart that has a chain connection to an UPPERBODY (PARENT>CHILD>CHILD>etc...) will be used for grappling

First I had thought that it was due to a connection to a GRASP body part. But with testing a new creature that had a one part body (UPPER/LOWERBODY combo) that it was grabbing hostiles with it's legs, not to mention it's rear legs.

SUMMARY:
- ABS = Only useful for more control on how a creature acts combat wise; Your link "Using the [NERVOUS] Token to Simulate RL Limbs"
- LIMB = Repects STRUCTUAL tissues now, Can be used to grapple if a chain connection is made to a UPPERBODY (acts like a reverse NERVOUS)
- JOINT = Repects STRUCTUAL and acts as a friendly NERVOUS (cripples internal part and CHILDREN parts)
Also added interest:
"Dwarven Consciousness and its Effect on Breeding"
the reaserch of "Di" exstends to 34.xx aswell. Point of interest is CIV members with PET now can no manual labor (all default labors, hauling, cleans, feeding others, etc.) but since considered and animal you can't do much laborwise. However if they are intelligent (which is also required for the previously mentioned statement) they can be placed in noble positions, and even the army.

This leads to Civ members that can be called "Slaves, Concubines, or Mercenaries" in which can be bought for simple slave labor, breeding (as to PET FEMALEs not needing a husband, more on this later) or simple cannon fodder or back up military

Slaves, embark with them for simple hauling task, might as well make them FEMALE too so they double as a Concubine (or if that word is too "unethic" breeder)

Breeders, embark will act like slaves but all MALE civ members will breed with her, without marriage. Leading to quick populaiton increase (all children will have a <tame> on their name, but other then that suffer from no PET issues and function as a normal citizen)

Mercs, Just like slaves. And if Female as breeders (if male simply something to keep breeders going and acting like slaves aswell)
P.S.
dropped this into my sig so I can get here easier. Incase of anynew Science

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

Double Post.
But more Science:
Williham has done some testing on "Gender-Swapping Transformations" and it's regards to Breeding

And I have done some Science on the IMMOBILE tag and it's effects on breeding

IMMOBILE seems to act like STERILE only making the creature unable to move. So dropping the IMMOBILE tag on the only MALE/FEMALE or BOTH will stop breeding, even if one of the pair lacks it, must treat IMMOBILE as double "No Movement" and "Sterile"

Castes with the IMMOBILE tag can be born, but they would have to be a third caste that is seperate then the breeding castes (3rd caste must be an extra MALE/FEMALE but can be genderless (since it is IMMOBILE it won't breed/aid in breeding anyways))