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Author Topic: Frozen Synapse - First Bay 12 Tournament underway  (Read 20624 times)

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2011, 08:10:00 am »

You see the point, though.

The point is moot. Another pair of rockets would've ensured the entire game played out differently. (Not to mention that the guy you were facing made some very silly mistakes, but that happens to us all).

If those had been rockets, the building he was defending and the wall along the corridor I took (as well as my only spawn building) would have been gone by the end of the game.

Actually, had he took the path he did in that game, he wouldnt've been able to do anything much, nor would you. But again, if either of you had a rocket on the field, nothing would've turned out the way it did. It's pointless going "if this were that" because FS isn't - for the most part at least - rock-paper-scissors. And I don't see how that video says anything at all about grenades; neither of you were really doing any area denial. He barely reacted to half his squad being killed and just carried on spamming top-bottom while you kept on firing through the doorway which you had covered anyway. I could - to be hyberbolic - say that at least firing rockets has a discernible effect on the gameplay while grenades are just about wildly guessing and running away.

My first online game (actually my first game ever) was 3 rocket/1 mg and it could've been very interesting had I known what I was doing. There's no point destroying more cover if you don't have anything with which to fire into the gap.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2011, 09:01:54 am »


 There's no point destroying more cover if you don't have anything with which to fire into the gap.

I completely agree with you on this, but I rarely if ever see anyone play with this in mind. Apart from that, I notice that people generally don't use rockets as anything but pure offensive weapons; they don't use them to open new paths through structures for themselves, or to deny enemy players good positions. They spam them through every opening on their side to destroy the buildings and walls on my side. I have two options: Allow them to do this without responding in kind, in which case they've got a line of walls for their units to hide behind, popping out to shoot,  and I've got an open area with little to no cover; or act with the same idea in mind, just to prevent it from working for them. If both players are using their rockets to wreck the cover on the opposite side of the map, pretty soon there isn't much cover left. It isn't that either player is wantonly destroying structures for no reason, as there is a very clear purpose. It is just that neither player can afford not to destroy enemy cover if they want a chance at winning the match. Rocket matches almost always (in my experience) end in the same result, and I honestly can't say that that is a good thing. It has gotten to the point where in a match with rockets, I can usually predict the first three shots they'll take, and plan my positioning according to that. Not the "Oh, I know the logical places for them to move to or take cover at, let me try to set up to cover all of them" that you get in a normal match, but "They will shoot here, here, and here, unless they're completely stupid".

The only uncertain element of a match with rockets is the unpredicability of whether or not the other player knows how to hit light cover with them.

As I mentioned before, I see two approaches that could make rockets an actual tactical weapon, rather than spam: Limited ammunition, or replacement with a different unit armed with a limited number of timed C4 charges (and a pistol) which would fill the same tactical roles as rockets (opening new avenues of movement and firing, breaking up easily campable rooms) without allowing for excessive spam. For that matter, I think the same approach would be good for the grenadier: A unit armed with hand grenades (perhaps 3 fragmentation and one HE capable of destroying light cover?) and a pistol, which again fills the tactical roles (clearing rooms you know are being camped) without letting people spam explosives to excess. With both, you've got the tactical capabilities of the former unit without the potential for a match filled with spam.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #107 on: October 13, 2011, 01:24:43 am »

Rockets have 2 "Tactical" options:

1) Spam them at cover so your opponent can't use it when you attack.
2) Fortify behind cover in a spot rockets can't hit (e.g. they can at most remove your cover... if they have line of sight) and start breaking walls down to open fields of fire.

That's it.
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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #108 on: October 13, 2011, 05:36:01 am »

There are still 24 hours left to sign up for the tournament.
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Quote from: Vilien
Yes, you should always apply more magma.

Siquo

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #109 on: October 13, 2011, 06:37:01 am »

Was I signed up? Do I have to sign up in-game? If not, Siquo is in.
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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2011, 07:30:13 am »

The only ingame requirement is that you must have played a game on UK1.
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Quote from: Vilien
Yes, you should always apply more magma.

Siquo

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #111 on: October 13, 2011, 08:34:39 am »

Check, willdo.
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will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
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Flying Dice

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2011, 02:57:41 pm »

So are we going to be starting it on Friday or Saturday?
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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #113 on: October 13, 2011, 09:53:59 pm »

Friday, 7am EST. AKA 8 hours from now.

This is an experiment. I have no idea how timeliness is managed, and hope the starting time doesn't screw us over. Its easy enough to just try again properly on Saturday if this screws up.
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Quote from: Vilien
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Pandarsenic

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2011, 10:48:08 pm »

Am I in? I want to be in.
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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2011, 11:21:09 pm »

Am I in? I want to be in.

You are now.
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Quote from: Vilien
Yes, you should always apply more magma.

Siquo

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #116 on: October 14, 2011, 03:34:17 am »

AFAIK you don't have to be online at the same time to play each other, so just start already :)
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will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

klingon13524

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #117 on: October 14, 2011, 04:02:54 am »

I was going to get this when it was in the last Humble bundle. When I went to the page it was closed. Now I get to wait for a full 25$ to come my way.
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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #118 on: October 14, 2011, 05:46:26 am »

And the first Bay 12 Frozen Synapse Tournament has begun!

Wravburn, sadly, neglected to play a game on UK1, and as such was not able to be added to the tournament. This left us with 15 players, so FlyingDice gets to proceed to round 2 for free.

At the last moment I realized that I did not have time to set up custom, symmetrical Disputed matches, so I had to make the whole tournament Dark Extermination. Should be fun anyways :)

EDIT: And then, of course, since I didn't do that, the first match has rocket launchers. Argh.
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Quote from: Vilien
Yes, you should always apply more magma.

AlStar

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Re: Frozen Synapse
« Reply #119 on: October 14, 2011, 06:21:57 pm »

Not sure how other people's games are going, but I just played my first two turns (turned out that tdphllips had already sent in his first.)

If you haven't seen it yet, td, I'm afraid the first exchange of rockets has not gone your way...


By the way, are we all playing the exact same map?
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