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[CharonX]

Here's something odd... I have a Brook on my map (all temperate, I checked the biomes) and when winter comes it freezes... at the least partially.
The northern part becomes a wall of Ice, while the southern part happily gurgles on. When winter hits fully I think the souther part might freeze too, but its really odd to see half of the river frozen, and half rushing on.  

[Toady One]

Those two parts of the world map are at different temperatures.  There's not much that can be done about this, other than try to mess around with exactly what happens at the interface.

[Lightning4]

Maybe this "bug" could be turned benificial... what'd be neat is to see ice chunks solidifying then breaking off that part of the stream and floating downstream until it finally melts.

[Arkan15]

quote:Originally posted by Lightning4:
<STRONG>Maybe this "bug" could be turned benificial... what'd be neat is to see ice chunks solidifying then breaking off that part of the stream and floating downstream until it finally melts.</STRONG>

Urist Genericdwarf, Fisherdwarf cancels Fish: Interrupted by iceberg.

[Tormy]

I dont see any problems with this. It is very possible in the nature also, that a part of a river is frozen, and the other part is not, because some specific things can influence water temperature.

[Bluefire]

Yeah, but if the first part of the river freezes, where does the water of the other part come from? If it froze gradually, with the up most part of the river completely frozen and as you go south it thaws a little more, it would make sense, but the way it is now isn't natural.

[ November 02, 2007: Message edited by: Bluefire ]

[ November 02, 2007: Message edited by: Bluefire ]

[Lord Nightmare]

The frozen part should have an ice layer on top, and water underneath.
You should even be able to drill/cut holes in the ice and go ice fishing. People have been doing that since the late stone age, I believe.

LN

[Toady One]

I'm aware that it's unnatural.  It's tricky to do more.

[Sophismata]

What if only the surface of the river / watersource were to freeze? Now that you've made the z-layer, it certainly seems possible, and would still allow water to flow beneathe the surface ice. Unless it's frozen for balance reasons, I suppose... .

[Toady One]

These rivers only occupy one z-layer, so having a frozen surface is a non-trivial matter.  This is part of what I meant by tricky.  It becomes kind of a mess, and you have to worry about how pathing and everything else works with partially frozen tiles, and frozen tiles already exist over other map tiles.

[Tormy]

quote:Originally posted by Bluefire:
<STRONG>Yeah, but if the first part of the river freezes, where does the water of the other part come from? If it froze gradually, with the up most part of the river completely frozen and as you go south it thaws a little more, it would make sense, but the way it is now isn't natural.

[ November 02, 2007: Message edited by: Bluefire ]

[ November 02, 2007: Message edited by: Bluefire ]</STRONG>

Well, I was thinking about like this: Lets say z-level 0 is the surface of the river. So z-level 0 is frozen and z-level -1 is frozen for lets say 25 tiles. Than after that point only Z-level 0 is frozen for lets say another 25 tiles. After that not even z-level 0 is frozen. This is what possible in nature. That is what I meant.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>I'm aware that it's unnatural.  It's tricky to do more.</STRONG>

I don't think it is unnatural.  Aren't there a lot of rivers in cold climates that have the top layer frozen and eventually as it enters a different temperature zone, the top layer begins to melt, until you have a visible river?  If anything, there should be thin ice that breaks near the boarder, causing the dwarf to fall in, and probably drown.

[FFT]

quote:Originally posted by Gangsta Spanksta:
<STRONG>

I don't think it is unnatural.</STRONG>

The way it currently works is unnatural is I suspect what Toady was saying.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

quote:Originally posted by FFT:
<STRONG>

The way it currently works is unnatural is I suspect what Toady was saying.</STRONG>

Well, the only thing wrong with it that I see is that the bottom layer of the river is frozen  Perhaps since the river is usually 4 squares wide the outer two could be frozen on the bottom lever while the inner two have flowing water.  Sorta, IWWI.  If you try to get to the water by digging through the Ice it could immediately refreeze, possibly with your dwarf in it  

[Aquillion]

quote:Originally posted by Gangsta Spanksta:
<STRONG>

Well, the only thing wrong with it that I see is that the bottom layer of the river is frozen  Perhaps since the river is usually 4 squares wide the outer two could be frozen on the bottom lever while the inner two have flowing water.  Sorta, IWWI.  If you try to get to the water by digging through the Ice it could immediately refreeze, possibly with your dwarf in it    </STRONG>

Except that, sadly, rivers aren't currently defined with enough granularity to do that--they only have a depth of one square.  There's no "bottom layer" or "top layer", just solid water or solid ice...  and adding the distinction for a frozen top layer of ice is non-trivial.

It would allow for simpler ice fishing, and make it easier to tap deep water in frozen areas.  But still, it's not really worth it.  It's one of those things players won't generally notice unless it's called to their attention (the way this sharp dividing line does.)  Like Toady said, unless he wants to do a massive overhaul of how ice works, all he can do is fiddle with what happens at that line...  Probably the best thing to do (assuming it isn't too tough) is just make it so that in general the dividing line between parts of the world map are more 'blurry' up close, with a few scattered spaces on either side getting the properties of the other side instead.

This is a bigger problem than just rivers, isn't it?  As it is now, all biome-related effects will end with a sharp, sudden line.  Blurring the bounderies when viewed up close would probably be a good idea overall, if it's possible.

[ November 04, 2007: Message edited by: Aquillion ]