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[kaijyuu]

Err, it should be pretty obvious as to "how." Choose something to believe (or not) and see what happens in the afterlife (if your choice has an afterlife).

Or just abstain from making any assumptions at all, like me (agnosticism go!).

EDIT: Assuming we're still talking about religion here. Dunno about math land :X

[Leafsnail]

Err, it should be pretty obvious as to "how." Choose something to believe (or not) and see what happens in the afterlife (if your choice has an afterlife).

This isn't an answer, it's just restating the question.  My question is how do you decide which "consistent" things you bolt on to your view of the world, considering that there are a virtually infinite number of them and many of them will be mutually exclusive or directly contradictory to others?

[Tack]

I dunno, I didn't do very much mathematics, so all I know is that multiplying enough will cause an exponential curve.

But, High school maths isn't enough knowledge base to pull off a decent math-uendo. Or Math-entendre?

[TheBronzePickle]

I actually base my "faith" off of scientific testing. My studies have found that I tend to get better results from my actions by praying to God beforehand than when I try to do the actions on my own. I've also observed a difference in the happiness and to a lesser degree quality of life between people in equivalent social and economic positions with a bias towards religion.

Of course, as a counter to that, the more bigoted a person of faith is, the lower their happiness and quality of life appears to be. Thankfully, my faith as it stands (Christianity focusing heavily on the teachings of Jesus above other parts of the Bible) specifically asks me to avoid bigotry.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I actually base my "faith" off of scientific testing. My studies have found that I tend to get better results from my actions by praying to God beforehand than when I try to do the actions on my own.

That is not a legitimate scientific test. First, you are only testing yourself. For a scientific inquiry, you need a large test group. Secondly, you are allowing your bias to effect you through your participation. You want God to exist, so you are subconsciously (or depending on your level of ethics, consciously) effecting your results.

More scientifically legitimate studies on prayer also contradict you.

[TheBronzePickle]

I have an answer for the bias part, in that I've performed tests where the factors involved that would decrease the chances of me getting an advantage (like being nervous before a test) have been amplified in the times that I do pray. I can also say that I have observed many people who seem to legitimately benefit from prayer. Observation is admittedly only a part of the scientific method, so I can't exactly qualify it as an experiment, but it's data.

I wish I could see more about that study you're showing me. If prayer does nothing, people shouldn't be having worse incidents from it.

[Virex]

Did you account for Conformation bias as well?

[TheBronzePickle]

I've always had issues with my faith. I'm a very lukewarm worshiper at best. Even subconsciously I find myself consistently drifting away from faith.

The only reason I have faith at all is because I've made too many observations that point toward some kind of higher power offering blessings to those who dare to ask. I choose to follow Christianity because of all the religions I've looked at, Christianity fits in with my observations the best.

...anyway, um, wasn't this thread about sex before marriage or something? Getting back to that topic somewhat, the church I'm at teaches abstinence because it's an outreach program that tries to get into the kinds of areas with teen pregnancy issues and STI problems. When it comes to areas like that, saying to wait a while is pretty good advice.

[Lord Shonus]

As long as it's coupled with ways to reduce the risks if abstinence ends, it's a good idea. The form where all other forms of birth control are demonized is not.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I have an answer for the bias part, in that I've performed tests where the factors involved that would decrease the chances of me getting an advantage (like being nervous before a test) have been amplified in the times that I do pray.

Not good enough. You cannot be involved. Bias will always leak through even if you are actively planning against it, so you have to be separate from participation in the experiment.

I can also say that I have observed many people who seem to legitimately benefit from prayer.

The only reason I have faith at all is because I've made too many observations that point toward some kind of higher power offering blessings to those who dare to ask.

Just like that lady with terminal breast cancer who was miraculously cured by god at a healing.
Alright, so it was more of non-terminal breast cancer.
Well, it wasn't actually diagnosed by a doctor, but she knew it was cancer.
I'm just saying, it was a very strange looking lump that went away after she prayed, and you can't prove that it wasn't cancer and that God didn't heal her because he totally exists.

You cannot trust your personal anecdotes as evidence.

I wish I could see more about that study you're showing me. If prayer does nothing, people shouldn't be having worse incidents from it.

The outlier was the group that knew they were being prayed for, so that's what must be looked at. The actual act of prayer disconnected from the subject seems to do nothing, as the groups that weren't being prayed for and being secretly prayed for got effectively the same amount of complications. From that we can deduce that the knowledge that people are praying for your recovery was the cause of the outlier, as this was the only difference between the two groups being prayed for. Cardiac bypass (the surgery of those involved in the prayer study) is obviously a very serious event, and even slight things can have major consequences. The most likely explanation is that the complications are developing from stress. Knowing that people are expecting you to make a supernatural recovery handed down by God Himself is a massive performance to lead up to. So much so that your heart rate might go up, testing your newly bypassed artery to its limit...

...anyway, um, wasn't this thread about sex before marriage or something? Getting back to that topic somewhat, the church I'm at teaches abstinence because it's an outreach program that tries to get into the kinds of areas with teen pregnancy issues and STI problems. When it comes to areas like that, saying to wait a while is pretty good advice.

Good advice in theory, not in practice. You can't expect people to wait because they aren't going to listen to you. Teenagers live in a haze of sex hormones and social anxiety that makes any chance of intimacy with another human being a very attractive proposition. Some may not pursue that, but most will and won't listen to a word you say if you try to stop them. To them, people who preach abstinence only are just a bunch of asshole adults (or fellow asshole teenagers, they won't make a distinction) who "Don't know what I'm going through, man!". Simply put, you cannot stop them and by trying you are making your position invalid to them. By advocating safe sex you are allowing them to fulfill their urges, and the only small limits you are trying to get them to practice are there for very good, completely obvious reasons. Through that, you come off as legitimately caring about their well being instead of just trying to keep them down, and as such they will listen to you far more often.

[TheBronzePickle]

Good advice in theory, not in practice. You can't expect people to wait because they aren't going to listen to you. Teenagers live in a haze of sex hormones and social anxiety that makes any chance of intimacy with another human being a very attractive proposition. Some may not pursue that, but most will and won't listen to a word you say if you try to stop them. To them, people who preach abstinence only are just a bunch of asshole adults (or fellow asshole teenagers, they won't make a distinction) who "Don't know what I'm going through, man!". Simply put, you cannot stop them and by trying you are making your position invalid to them. By advocating safe sex you are allowing them to fulfill their urges, and the only small limits you are trying to get them to practice are there for very good, completely obvious reasons. Through that, you come off as legitimately caring about their well being instead of just trying to keep them down, and as such they will listen to you far more often.

We don't say "you should do this because blah," we say "we recommend you do this" and give them a bunch of good reasons, most of them bounded in science, as to why they should probably listen. This only after we've gotten them to listen to us in the first place by showing them the benefits of, if not following God, then being in a community of people who actively care about each other's welfare and follow a doctrine that teaches love and tolerance (not that half the misguided bigots in my church are actually tolerant, but the ones that are make all the difference from any other group they could get into).

[Vector]

This isn't an answer, it's just restating the question.  My question is how do you decide which "consistent" things you bolt on to your view of the world, considering that there are a virtually infinite number of them and many of them will be mutually exclusive or directly contradictory to others?

Bolt them on one at a time, checking for contradictions, and when you find contradictions, rework things.

This is not that novel of a concept.  It's like "Do you want the axiom of choice or not?  You get to decide!"

[Vester]

You cannot trust your personal anecdotes as evidence.

Trusting everyone else's personal anecdotes, however, is perfectly alright. I mean, as long as they're peer reviewed.

[Vector]

I guess I'll also point everyone to the shockingly large number of religious mathematicians.  Does "God created the natural numbers--all else is the work of man" ring a bell for anyone?

[Virex]

I have heard people say that e^{i * pi} = -1 is a divine formula, which is rather ironic considering the involvement of the imaginary number...