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[Vector]

... Because I have a fetish for old men?  Pull the other one, it's got bells on =)

[Darvi]

I'm so shallow I already dumped several people without even being aware of their existance. :/

... Because I have a fetish for old men?

'bout 3 millenia old right?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Next plan: find out how to reproduce asexually.

Well, that's easy.

Step One: Harvest yo stem cells.
Step Two: Make some of yo stem cells sperm and one an egg cell.
Step Three:
Step Four: Stand trial for crimes against humanity.

I envy you. Why do we men have to be so shallow? I don't want to feel attracted to anyone, it's unfair towards those I'm not attracted to...

WHY ARE WE ALL SO ANTI-LOVE?!?!

If I love one person so much, how can I love the rest of the world?

Trust me, it's not a man/woman thing.  And I am attracted to people, just not really sexually.

But at least you're attracted to others for acceptable reasons.

Virex, you really need to get past this self-hatred of yours. You and Vector are almost certainly attracted to others for the same acceptable reasons.

[Max White]

I'm so shallow I already dumped several people without even being aware of their existance. :/

Darvi you ladykiller, I thought we could be together!

[Vector]

... Because I have a fetish for old men?

'bout 3 millenia old right?

Nah, only 45 through 60--and seriously, only in that range.  I suspect it's my desire to create a strong bond between myself and paternal figures, as I never got to know any of the older (i.e. uncles/father upward) men in my family very well.  Fix what's missing, in essence.

[Bohandas]

When you do get the . . .erm. . .urge, it's usually just your reproductive hormones going "DO IT!!! WE NEED TO CONTINUE THE HUMAN RACE EVEN THOUGH WE'VE GROWN OUT OF THE ERA THAT REQUIRED SHITTONS OF BIRTH TO HAVE A SURVIVING CHILD! NO REGRETS!" And then everything goes to shit.

If you're going to get all biologically deterministic about it, you might as well say that the entirety of human behavior and physiology is the result of natural selection mostly taking place nowhere even close to the modern era to begin with, though. And then everything goes to shit!

Hooray for greedy algorithms, amirite?

Also, I am going to shake my fist in Vector's general direction now. I'll probably miss, what with the distance and all that. Still, envy! I have such instincts, they just crop up too infrequently to justify changes to my lifestyle. Very annoying when they do arise.

^{_{see what I did there?}}

Hm. . .I can see why we haven't evolved past this point already. While our survival needs are over met, they're already met so there's really no need to evolve any further. Damn you evolution! Stop making up so horny! We don't need this shit right now!

It seems to me that we would all be a lot happier if we stopped trying to be something that we're not.

[Virex]

I envy you. Why do we men have to be so shallow? I don't want to feel attracted to anyone, it's unfair towards those I'm not attracted to...

WHY ARE WE ALL SO ANTI-LOVE?!?!

If I love one person so much, how can I love the rest of the world?

Trust me, it's not a man/woman thing.  And I am attracted to people, just not really sexually.

But at least you're attracted to others for acceptable reasons.

Virex, you really need to get past this self-hatred of yours. You and Vector are almost certainly attracted to others for the same acceptable reasons.

I don't think I hate myself (at least not to an unhealthy extent), I'm just trying to be realistic and conservative when it comes to judging my behavior and thoughts instead of assuming that I'm good at something without any evidence of it. Although on the other hand I may be too quick to assume people are right when they say subjective things about themselves...

[Max White]

Nah, only 45 through 60--and seriously, only in that range.  I suspect it's my desire to create a strong bond between myself and paternal figures, as I never got to know any of the older (i.e. uncles/father upward) men in my family very well.  Fix what's missing, in essence.

Older man also have the advantage of being able to read a wine menu. Seriously, I'm the only one I know my age who knows a merlot from a pinot.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I don't think I hate myself, I'm just trying to be realistic and conservative when it comes to judging my behavior and thoughts instead of assuming that I'm good at something without any evidence of it.

Spoiler: I think you do hate yourself. (click to show/hide)

I am surprised at the amount of people here thinking that men and women are equal, while women are usually (statistically speaking) better motivated, better at complex tasks, less prone to violence and more empathic than men...

That's why you shouldn't trust men to make a judgment call about these kind of things and also why appealing to free will, decency and common sense doesn't work in this case. Plus, for men being sexy is an escapade, for women it's a curse and a duty.

I envy you. Why do we men have to be so shallow? I don't want to feel attracted to anyone, it's unfair towards those I'm not attracted to...

Misandry? Where?

The assertion that men are incapable of self-control.

I thought it was a given that men are naturally less capable of self-control? I seem to recall that it was one of the effects of a heightened testosterone level?

You are not your hormones.

And a cat can be taught to swim.

And do all men have a heightened testosterone level?

It is not a given that men are incapable of self-control.  If we are not going to state here that women are naturally mothering because they "can all have babies," we are not going to state here that men are incapable of change.

I believe that many men here are here because they want to change, or they want to help other men (as a subset of society in general) change.

If men were incapable of changing themselves, I wouldn't call this "progressivism."  We're here for change, futile as it may seem sometimes.

And "he just couldn't help himself" is not an acceptable defense for wrongdoing.

Oh men can change up to a point, that's a given. It's just that study upon study shows that no matter how much self-control someone displays, he'll be much easier swayed by someone that shows a bit of cleavage. One of the problems with feminist arguments is that it often comes down to "Men just have to stop treating women as sex objects", but the one saying that doesn't realize how difficult it can be to be completely unbiased. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm just saying that if you want men to pay exactly as much attention to a morbidly obese women in a nikab to Hale Berry, then you're fighting a million years of evolution. That's not to say we shouldn't try, on the contrary actually. But it does mean we have to realize that we may need to do a bit more than just talking and praying...
Besides, "he just couldn't help himself" if really true, does mean he cannot be punished. However, it also means he's a danger to society and has to be locked away or cured for the safety of all.

Also, that's another example of how saying really nasty stuff about males is allowed, yet not about females. Nobody could get away with saying female suicides is because they're "stupid and deserve to die", which is what a darwin award implies.

Well, considering the way people talk about women, I don't see how this is any worse then the copious amount of rape jokes that pop up everywhere when there's no women in sight. We kinda earned this kind of hostility you know...


And talking this way is certainly no more nasty then raping someone, which is a favorite pastime of a not insignificant part of the male population...

We kinda earned this kind of hostility you know...

"We" didn't earn anything. I am not part of a hive mind with my fellow males. There is no "We". I care about the oppression of women by other men like I care about the oppression of anyone by anyone: It's horrible and it should stop, but I'm not doing it, I'm not part of it, and I'm not responsable for it. I oppress no one, and I refuse to be treated like I do.

Maybe you're different, I don't know you so I'll have to take your word for it. But considering the current situation of the world, it's much safer to be very careful when it comes to men. It just happens so often that someone who's seemingly nice and innocent turns out to be a complete monster. I don't want to be a danger to society any more then you or the next person but I'm afraid that's beyond our control in this case.

This isn't an attack Virex, but the evidence that you have an self-hatred problem over being male seems all there in my eyes.

[Virex]

Meh, maybe you're right (I shouldn't have brought that up), I'm often the first to claim that people don't know themselves all that well. Anyway we're veering off-topic here, we were discussing Vector's asexual sexual preferences, right?

[Bauglir]

Nah, only 45 through 60--and seriously, only in that range.  I suspect it's my desire to create a strong bond between myself and paternal figures, as I never got to know any of the older (i.e. uncles/father upward) men in my family very well.  Fix what's missing, in essence.

Older man also have the advantage of being able to read a wine menu. Seriously, I'm the only one I know my age who knows a merlot from a pinot.

Winetasting ftw!

Also, being sexually attracted to someone is fine. It's when you restrict someone to being valuable only sexually (or, really, in any other way) that you get problems. There's no real difference, to my mind, between objectifying somebody for her breasts or for her keen logic skills.

As for being something I'm not, that's not the aim. I'm recognizing that one thing I am (occasionally lustful) is at odds with another, more important thing I am (all those reasons I gave) and choosing accordingly. The great thing about being sapient is the ability to examine myself, and to choose what I want to be from among the myriad impulses that make up who I am. To deny my desire for particular kinds of relationships to the exclusion of others is a greater denial of who I am than to deny a few sexual impulses.

[Leafsnail]

We don't NEED anything! Ultimately even survival is merely something that we want.

I'm pretty sure "need" is a conditional word (ie "You need X in order to Y" or something variant thereof).  It's normally assumed that "need" is in reference to survival ("I need to drink [subtext: in order to survive"]").  You're trying to remove it from any kind of context, and I'm not sure if it's even a meaningful concept then.

I'm attracted to so many people and in a ton of cases I'm much more shallow than a ton of men I've met.

Does being attracted to many people make you "shallow"?  I wouldn't have said so.

[Bohandas]

I don't think I hate myself, I'm just trying to be realistic and conservative when it comes to judging my behavior and thoughts instead of assuming that I'm good at something without any evidence of it.

Spoiler: I think you do hate yourself. (click to show/hide)

I am surprised at the amount of people here thinking that men and women are equal, while women are usually (statistically speaking) better motivated, better at complex tasks, less prone to violence and more empathic than men...

That's why you shouldn't trust men to make a judgment call about these kind of things and also why appealing to free will, decency and common sense doesn't work in this case. Plus, for men being sexy is an escapade, for women it's a curse and a duty.

I envy you. Why do we men have to be so shallow? I don't want to feel attracted to anyone, it's unfair towards those I'm not attracted to...

Misandry? Where?

The assertion that men are incapable of self-control.

I thought it was a given that men are naturally less capable of self-control? I seem to recall that it was one of the effects of a heightened testosterone level?

You are not your hormones.

And a cat can be taught to swim.

And do all men have a heightened testosterone level?

It is not a given that men are incapable of self-control.  If we are not going to state here that women are naturally mothering because they "can all have babies," we are not going to state here that men are incapable of change.

I believe that many men here are here because they want to change, or they want to help other men (as a subset of society in general) change.

If men were incapable of changing themselves, I wouldn't call this "progressivism."  We're here for change, futile as it may seem sometimes.

And "he just couldn't help himself" is not an acceptable defense for wrongdoing.

Oh men can change up to a point, that's a given. It's just that study upon study shows that no matter how much self-control someone displays, he'll be much easier swayed by someone that shows a bit of cleavage. One of the problems with feminist arguments is that it often comes down to "Men just have to stop treating women as sex objects", but the one saying that doesn't realize how difficult it can be to be completely unbiased. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm just saying that if you want men to pay exactly as much attention to a morbidly obese women in a nikab to Hale Berry, then you're fighting a million years of evolution. That's not to say we shouldn't try, on the contrary actually. But it does mean we have to realize that we may need to do a bit more than just talking and praying...
Besides, "he just couldn't help himself" if really true, does mean he cannot be punished. However, it also means he's a danger to society and has to be locked away or cured for the safety of all.

Also, that's another example of how saying really nasty stuff about males is allowed, yet not about females. Nobody could get away with saying female suicides is because they're "stupid and deserve to die", which is what a darwin award implies.

Well, considering the way people talk about women, I don't see how this is any worse then the copious amount of rape jokes that pop up everywhere when there's no women in sight. We kinda earned this kind of hostility you know...


And talking this way is certainly no more nasty then raping someone, which is a favorite pastime of a not insignificant part of the male population...

We kinda earned this kind of hostility you know...

"We" didn't earn anything. I am not part of a hive mind with my fellow males. There is no "We". I care about the oppression of women by other men like I care about the oppression of anyone by anyone: It's horrible and it should stop, but I'm not doing it, I'm not part of it, and I'm not responsable for it. I oppress no one, and I refuse to be treated like I do.

Maybe you're different, I don't know you so I'll have to take your word for it. But considering the current situation of the world, it's much safer to be very careful when it comes to men. It just happens so often that someone who's seemingly nice and innocent turns out to be a complete monster. I don't want to be a danger to society any more then you or the next person but I'm afraid that's beyond our control in this case.

This isn't an attack Virex, but the evidence that you have an self-hatred problem over being male seems all there in my eyes.

He also seems to have some kind of paranoid belief in bizarre imagined conspiricies that he believes to be controlling him, as well as an inability to appreciate Hanlon's Razor.

We kinda earned this kind of hostility you know...

"We" didn't earn anything. I am not part of a hive mind with my fellow males. There is no "We". I care about the oppression of women by other men like I care about the oppression of anyone by anyone: It's horrible and it should stop, but I'm not doing it, I'm not part of it, and I'm not responsable for it. I oppress no one, and I refuse to be treated like I do.

Maybe you're different, I don't know you so I'll have to take your word for it. But considering the current situation of the world, it's much safer to be very careful when it comes to men. It just happens so often that someone who's seemingly nice and innocent turns out to be a complete monster. I don't want to be a danger to society any more then you or the next person but I'm afraid that's beyond our control in this case.

EDIT: Subject also appears to exhibit some manner of disassociative mental state. Displays an inability to distinguish between different male humans; believes them, and himself with them, to be a single entity.

[Max White]

Hanlon's razor is just a more specific example of Ockham's anyway.

[Virex]

Can we get back to the topic? I don't really like being the subject of an unannounced psychoanalysis...