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Author Topic: 'Alerts'  (Read 1787 times)

catfive

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'Alerts'
« on: September 30, 2011, 02:48:33 pm »

Can I ask if anyone has a quick and easyt step by step for this new and apparently deliberately over clunky system for having military or civ dwarfs do anything?

I can't believe someone actually looked at this finished implementation and went "yeah thats what we need!". Surely the 40d system with only minor additions would have been better than this :/

Anyway. Any guide that actually explains that side as I really can't be arsed playing at all now with the current unintuitive 'alerts' thing.

Sorry for whining but as a long term user of DF (and planned buyer if/when) this bloody ridiculous change has just about put me off it altogether.
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thvaz

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 03:16:30 pm »

Can I ask if anyone has a quick and easyt step by step for this new and apparently deliberately over clunky system for having military or civ dwarfs do anything?

I can't believe someone actually looked at this finished implementation and went "yeah thats what we need!". Surely the 40d system with only minor additions would have been better than this :/

Anyway. Any guide that actually explains that side as I really can't be arsed playing at all now with the current unintuitive 'alerts' thing.

Sorry for whining but as a long term user of DF (and planned buyer if/when) this bloody ridiculous change has just about put me off it altogether.

It changed so it sucks!
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Sizik

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 03:16:40 pm »

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Rafal99

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 03:22:37 pm »

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Military_interface

The military interface perhaps is not the most intuitive and user-friendly thing ever, but is quite functional once you get used to it.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 03:28:31 pm by Rafal99 »
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cephalo

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 03:28:06 pm »

The number one rule of military is that you want less than the full 10 squad members on duty, otherwise they get real mad, starving, thirsty. They don't eat or drink from their packs until they are off duty! The rations are there to save a trip to the stockpiles, not for eating on the job.
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Jake

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 04:44:59 pm »

The number one rule of military is that you want less than the full 10 squad members on duty, otherwise they get real mad, starving, thirsty. They don't eat or drink from their packs until they are off duty! The rations are there to save a trip to the stockpiles, not for eating on the job.
Anyone know if that's intended behaviour? I'm pretty sure that wasn't how it worked in 40d.
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Sizik

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 05:02:08 pm »

The number one rule of military is that you want less than the full 10 squad members on duty, otherwise they get real mad, starving, thirsty. They don't eat or drink from their packs until they are off duty! The rations are there to save a trip to the stockpiles, not for eating on the job.
Anyone know if that's intended behaviour? I'm pretty sure that wasn't how it worked in 40d.
I think it's not intended for the same dwarves to be on duty year-round.
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Mister Always

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 05:46:46 pm »

The number one rule of military is that you want less than the full 10 squad members on duty, otherwise they get real mad, starving, thirsty. They don't eat or drink from their packs until they are off duty! The rations are there to save a trip to the stockpiles, not for eating on the job.
Anyone know if that's intended behaviour? I'm pretty sure that wasn't how it worked in 40d.
I think it's not intended for the same dwarves to be on duty year-round.

You can set it so they are, but it'll make them pissed as hell.
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catfive

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2011, 05:58:11 pm »

Well bollocks.

No, it doesn't suck because it changed, it sucks because it sucks. Or do you actually enjoy the prospect of setting up schedules for varying numbers of dwarfs each month only to have half that squad killed in various manners and have to go in and micro the hell out of their new alerts and planned routes etc etc?

Sorry, but just as sometimes change is good,sometimes it isn't. We have a saying up here "if it aint broke, don't fix it".
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Footkerchief

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2011, 07:06:37 pm »

Yeah, there's a fine line between making that level of control available, and making it mandatory.
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UltraValican

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2011, 07:17:05 pm »

Well bollocks.

No, it doesn't suck because it changed, it sucks because it sucks. Or do you actually enjoy the prospect of setting up schedules for varying numbers of dwarfs each month only to have half that squad killed in various manners and have to go in and micro the hell out of their new alerts and planned routes etc etc?

Sorry, but just as sometimes change is good,sometimes it isn't. We have a saying up here "if it aint broke, don't fix it".
You dont have to set schedules for individule dwarves just squads, and with copy and paste its not really micromangament.
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i2amroy

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2011, 08:07:43 pm »

Agreed. Usually (Since my squads run a 3 month rotation of training+danger room+off duty) Setting up my military consists of me creating a single order + pasting it 25 times to other months and squads, then creating another order +25 pastes, then the third one +25 pastes. Then I just create one last order for the "everyone run and defend the main entrance" and paste that 50 times or so (with macro's this comes down to about 5 button presses) and I'm done. Total time to set up my military's scheduling averages at about 5-10 min. It seriously takes me longer to find all of my intended military dwarves in the list of 150 to add them to their squads then it does to set up the scheduling. And since I tend to just use the basic metal armor uniform that is eventually followed by my saved more complex uniform, even uniforms only take like maybe 2 min to setup for all of my squads. And then after my total time of of maybe 7-12 min setting up my military for the fortress, I never have to do another thing save going to the alert menu and activating the alarm or the all clear and putting new dwarves into the spots of any that died (which is a simple matter of hunting through the list of dwarves and finding the first peasant not already in a squad) and only takes maybe a minute even with large numbers of deaths.

Trust me, though it seems like the new military stuff would suck since it requires so much work, the majority of the work such as uniforms only needs to be done the very first time, if at all. Combine this with the fact that usually by the time you set up your military the second time you know exactly what you want so you don't have to mess around with menus and the amount of micro-ing drops drastically. I might even go so far as to say that the new military stuff takes less management then the old 40d stuff, since you no longer have to manage dwarves training so they didn't kill each other or handling and complex stations to defend your fortress. Now my entire defense, from civilians heading to safety to arming the fortress guards can be armed or unarmed with a single toggle, and all with only about 10 minutes of setup time total + maybe another min after heavy casualties.
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thvaz

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2011, 01:47:57 am »

Well bollocks.

No, it doesn't suck because it changed, it sucks because it sucks. Or do you actually enjoy the prospect of setting up schedules for varying numbers of dwarfs each month only to have half that squad killed in various manners and have to go in and micro the hell out of their new alerts and planned routes etc etc?

Sorry, but just as sometimes change is good,sometimes it isn't. We have a saying up here "if it aint broke, don't fix it".

You don't have to do micro the hell of the new alerts and routes everytime a dwarf drops dead. This is all the point of the new system. You just need to substitute the dwarf in the squad.
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monk12

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 11:09:02 pm »

If you're new to 2010, you're bound to have some more FUN in store for you across the board.

Personally, I like the new military screen- the defaults work well enough to get a basic militia working if you don't plan on making them your main line of defense, and if they ARE your main defense it's much easier to keep them properly equipped and trained, once you know what you're doing. The new military is much like learning DF for the first time- initially obtuse, but powerful and flexible. I know I couldn't go back (I tried a 40d embark for old time's sake a while back, stupid doorway dance killed half my fort.)

If you need more specific help than the wiki, ask away- if you want to rant about it, you're about a year and a half too late. Have fun!

YetAnotherStupidDorf

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Re: 'Alerts'
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2011, 03:46:03 pm »

I personally find annoying that I cannot save my uniforms across games (like embark loadouts). Setuping five goddamn uniforms each and every time at beginning of embark gets old fast. And do not even get me start about plethora of military bugs completely left out in cold by Toady (because combat is such unimportant thing in DF).
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