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[NUKE9.13]

The fuck is this, guys?

You don't want this extension? You realise that Scum is just sitting back and laughing their heads off as you just derp along not doing anything, right?

Look, Toaster is obvscum. He 'didn't use his powers' N2 and N3, which just so happens to coincide with him being blocked. As soon as the source of blocks dies, he goes straight back to killing, and claims

N4 we had some breathing room

Which means it is an excellent time to kill someone whose major crime is... going after you. Self preservation. Wonderful.

Also, a question which did not occur to me earlier- why the flying fuck didn't Simple's buddies just NK you?

[NativeForeigner]

Also, a question which did not occur to me earlier- why the flying fuck didn't Simple's buddies just NK you?

This actually makes me want to believe my theory a little more now. I think it may have been a clever ruse.

[Toaster]

Extend, but by my count it should already have enough support to go through.


Nuke:

Also, a question which did not occur to me earlier- why the flying fuck didn't Simple's buddies just NK you?

You'll have to ask them.  WIFOM, perhaps?  Native is certainly drinking it deeply.

[NativeForeigner]

Native is certainly drinking it deeply.

I had the idea before NUKE brought that up, but I do admit that even my theory is based on wine. That's why I'm not putting any faith into it yet.

[Mephansteras]

The Counting Stones
NativeForeigner: Toaster
IronyOwl: Jack AT
NUKE9.13: Dariush, Jim Groovester
Toaster: NUKE9.13


Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Friday

[Jack A T]

I destroyed all that here.

You ignored it.

That's a lie and you know it.  Yes, my response was short, but as far as I could tell, your argument was still built around me having absurd, in-depth knowledge of NUKE's plan.  I responded to that and your idea that if I knew enough of his plan to consider your actions to be twisting words, I knew all of his plan.

You're scum.

Also, I love how I'm so clearly scum that I'm not worth a vote.  Especially when you aren't even voting.  Seriously, this is getting silly.

You know what?  Let's make a deal.  I'll give a wall of text response to your big argument IF you actually vote for someone and, if not me, explain why they're more worthwhile to vote than I am.

Because you clearly don't think I'm scummy enough to vote for yet.

[Jim Groovester]

Also, a question which did not occur to me earlier- why the flying fuck didn't Simple's buddies just NK you?

This actually makes me want to believe my theory a little more now. I think it may have been a clever ruse.

You shouldn't. Because it's dumb.

Look, Toaster is obvscum. He 'didn't use his powers' N2 and N3, which just so happens to coincide with him being blocked. As soon as the source of blocks dies, he goes straight back to killing, and claims

N4 we had some breathing room

Which means it is an excellent time to kill someone whose major crime is... going after you. Self preservation. Wonderful. ?

So let's get this straight. Toaster and Simple are scumbuddies, and so to start Day 4 Toaster votes Simple and then Simple claims to have blocked Toaster, and then Toaster claims Vigilante. Meanwhile the whole day revolves around them and because of this one scum is guaranteed to be lynched.

And what the hell is all of this for? Now, I'm no expert in the game of mafia (shame on me I'm lying) but this seems like a really really stupid scum gambit that wouldn't do anyone any good and it doesn't seem likely because if Toaster did this then he should know better and because he does know better he didn't do this.

Also, a question which did not occur to me earlier- why the flying fuck didn't Simple's buddies just NK you?

This looks an awful lot like you're trying to convince everybody that Toaster should die because he wasn't nightkilled last night.

Which is the WIFOMest of WIFOM.

Yep, you're scum.

[IronyOwl]

Toaster:

I've explained this.  I was pretty damn sure Powder was scum based on his actions.  N2 I got caught up on the MBP deal and ended up with a "idiot town" read on him.  N3 I was strongly considering shooting Simple, but wasn't sure and didn't want to lead to LYLO on a misfire.  N4 we had some breathing room, so I shot my top scumpick Max, due to his rampant inactivity and passive play, which is scummy in its own right and completely out of character for him.

Mmph. On rereading this seems in line with what you've said, but there's a few things I'd like to know about.


First of all, you had basically nothing at all N2 and N3. Why was this?

Secondly, what happened to this reasoning?

Spoiler: Max Logic (click to show/hide)

Max is scummy, but he's also claimed to have been blocked by Simple (scum.)  Unless Max is fakeclaiming being blocked because (as fellow scum) he knows that the true N1 block target is dead, then that would make Max not mafia.


I guess it's a valid possibility, but something that came to mind.

Third, you said the first time you rolled SK, you did things a certain way. Have you been an SK more than once? How'd you play those times?

I've explained this as well.  One, I don't think Meph would give a strong LYLO breaker as that to scum.  Two, firing it off at day start like that was something he was lucky to be on a the right time to have done- therefore, it couldn't have been coordinated from the start.  It was the move of an individual, not a team.  Three, if he was going to vote Simple with such a bad/nonreason, he easily could have voted me with the same.  Four, gut and you'll just have to deal with it.

One, we've got two flipped town tiebreakers. Does an instant day ender still seem out of line to you given that?

Two, why would you assume scum is always working closely with their teammates?

Three, yeah. Unless he was trying some stupid gambit. Given his known power usage, does that seem out of the question to you?

To clarify, your scumpicks are MBP, Jack, and myself, correct?

Correct.



Nuke:

Look, Toaster is obvscum. He 'didn't use his powers' N2 and N3, which just so happens to coincide with him being blocked. As soon as the source of blocks dies, he goes straight back to killing

Also, a question which did not occur to me earlier- why the flying fuck didn't Simple's buddies just NK you?

These two seem contradictory. Are you calling him an SK, scum, or scum who was blocked by his own teammate?



Jack:

That's a lie and you know it.  Yes, my response was short, but as far as I could tell, your argument was still built around me having absurd, in-depth knowledge of NUKE's plan.  I responded to that and your idea that if I knew enough of his plan to consider your actions to be twisting words, I knew all of his plan.

Briefly restating the thesis I just dismantled isn't "responding" to it in any actual sense. You might have well have said "NO U".

Also, I love how I'm so clearly scum that I'm not worth a vote.  Especially when you aren't even voting.  Seriously, this is getting silly.

You know what?  Let's make a deal.  I'll give a wall of text response to your big argument IF you actually vote for someone and, if not me, explain why they're more worthwhile to vote than I am.

Because you clearly don't think I'm scummy enough to vote for yet.

I've got three potential targets I'd like to vote for, and haven't done the research needed to decide between them.

But yes, if you actually respond to my big argument, I'll gladly cast a vote somewhere and explain exactly why. I'll even vote Jack in the meantime, since it apparently bothers you when I don't.

[NUKE9.13]

So let's get this straight. Toaster and Simple are scumbuddies,

You have got this bent. I reckon Toaster is a SK. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.
Hence Max going after him not immediately, but only once he knew he was a killer.
Hence scum going after him.
Hence his killing and backgrounding behaviour.

Also, a question which did not occur to me earlier- why the flying fuck didn't Simple's buddies just NK you?

This looks an awful lot like you're trying to convince everybody that Toaster should die because he wasn't nightkilled last night.

Actually, no. I am honestly confused. If Toaster is a SK, why try to get him lynched, unless they were hoping to get Simple some town cred. In that case, why not kill him last night? His continued survival is an inexplicable enigma. I'm trying to work out in what situation scum would be better off with him alive.
The possibility that scum does not have a kill at all seems increasingly plausible.

[Toaster]

Irony:  On D1, my top pick was Powder Miner, and Zrk2 I thought was a jester (and therefore a good vig target.)  N1 I offed Powder, so with D2 being basically nonexistent, I didn't have much to generate new picks on.  Further, my mental process on targeting N2 was basically "Should I shoot MBP?"  The answer to that was no, so I then didn't really dwell on finding other targets.

N3 I dispute I had nothing.  Again, my top pick was Simple, but I was insufficiently sure on him.  If I'm not sure enough to shoot my top pick, why would I shoot anyone else?

Secondly, what happened to this reasoning?

Spoiler: Max Logic (click to show/hide)

Max is scummy, but he's also claimed to have been blocked by Simple (scum.)  Unless Max is fakeclaiming being blocked because (as fellow scum) he knows that the true N1 block target is dead, then that would make Max not mafia.


I guess it's a valid possibility, but something that came to mind.

Third, you said the first time you rolled SK, you did things a certain way. Have you been an SK more than once? How'd you play those times?

I threw it out as WIFOM.

The only other time I was SK (Super3) I was recruited to the scum team N1.  My kill required ressing a dead player as a zombie, which took up my own N1.  I don't really remember my plan, but it was probably similar to the first time I was (Para17, where I was an exty with intel).

I've explained this as well.  One, I don't think Meph would give a strong LYLO breaker as that to scum.  Two, firing it off at day start like that was something he was lucky to be on a the right time to have done- therefore, it couldn't have been coordinated from the start.  It was the move of an individual, not a team.  Three, if he was going to vote Simple with such a bad/nonreason, he easily could have voted me with the same.  Four, gut and you'll just have to deal with it.

One, we've got two flipped town tiebreakers. Does an instant day ender still seem out of line to you given that?

Two, why would you assume scum is always working closely with their teammates?

Three, yeah. Unless he was trying some stupid gambit. Given his known power usage, does that seem out of the question to you?

I assume you mean Ottofar and BD?  IMO, they're lower power than MBP's power.  Given that we only know two scum roles, it's hard to say what the other two may be.  Someone is a vote blocker- that may be the scum counter to those two roles.

I would assume they would have discussed the use of such a powerful power.  I'll grant that I am assuming a fair amount here.

It'd be a very stupid gambit.  If he's scum, his first gambit certainly worked (as he's not lynched yet.)

Maybe I'm wrong.  Let's see...


MBP:  Who do you suspect and why?  At least two names, please.


Nuke:  If scum doesn't have a kill, who killed Vector and Ottofar?

[Dariush]

Toaster, after all the times I've played with Nuke I understood that it is useless to ask him any questions without having my vote on him, which proved to be pretty hard since I was absolutely sure of Simple's scumminess. Hence the 'ignoring'.

[IronyOwl]

N3 I dispute I had nothing.  Again, my top pick was Simple, but I was insufficiently sure on him.  If I'm not sure enough to shoot my top pick, why would I shoot anyone else?

Except, you only had one post to him, and I believe it was your last of the day. If your top suspect wasn't suspected at all until the end of the day, and didn't even warrant a vote then, you apparently didn't have much in the way of suspicions.

I assume you mean Ottofar and BD?  IMO, they're lower power than MBP's power.  Given that we only know two scum roles, it's hard to say what the other two may be.  Someone is a vote blocker- that may be the scum counter to those two roles.

If it's hard to say what roles scum might have, why are you so certain about one of them?

Furthermore, the vote blocker could also be a third town counter to MBP. Would that still not suffice, in your eyes, or is there some reason you consider it unlikely?

It'd be a very stupid gambit.  If he's scum, his first gambit certainly worked (as he's not lynched yet.)

As I've said, stupid gambits seem par the course for him. More reasonably/WIFOMy, he might have wanted an ironclad guarantee of getting through LYLO alive, which is certainly something he'd have trouble with on his own merits.

[Jim Groovester]

Toaster, after all the times I've played with Nuke I understood that it is useless to ask him any questions without having my vote on him, which proved to be pretty hard since I was absolutely sure of Simple's scumminess. Hence the 'ignoring'.

You've got your vote on him now. Why aren't you asking him questions?

So let's get this straight. Toaster and Simple are scumbuddies,

You have got this bent. I reckon Toaster is a SK. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.
Hence Max going after him not immediately, but only once he knew he was a killer.
Hence scum going after him.
Hence his killing and backgrounding behaviour.

This makes marginally more sense.

You're still inventing an inspection result to justify Max White's behavior, which you're using to justify Toaster's alignment, which you're using to justify your vote. That's a lot of assumptions and uncertainties you're making and you still don't have a lot in the way of a case. You say he's been backgrounding or whatever, and I'm guessing that's because of swaths of low activity on his part. Those are not unique to this game, however; it took him a few days to get into the current BM, for example.

Extend again unless you're all suddenly cool with me and Dariush lynching NUKE9.13.

[IronyOwl]

Extend.

[Mephansteras]

Day is extended to ~5pm Pacific Monday. Which is good, because I came down with a nasty cold and wasn't going to be able to do a proper end-of-day write-up anyway.