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[Greenbane]

I'm so pissed. It's like the fifth time half my 60-level pump stack (NecroRebel's design) deconstructs for no bloody reason.

I haven't had the chance to turn the whole thing on yet, since sooner or later something inexplicable happens and half the stack crumbles before all the pumps are finished.

Any ideas? It'd take eight billion years to build one pump at a time, babysitting each tiny step so that the retardorfs do their job right. It's the seventh hell of micromanagement. I'm this ( ) close to ragequitting.

[Sphalerite]

You need to build the pump stack one pump at a time, so that at no point are any of the pumps not supported by another pump beneath them.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Pumps will be supported by the very idea that there will eventually be a pump below them, but either are not supported when the pump is being constructed or temporarily lose their support during the process.

[King DZA]

If it makes you feel any better, you're doing way better than me. I'm still too terrified to even try the damn things.

[forsaken1111]

Every single pump stack I have started has ended in either drowning my entire fortress or a goblin siege that I didn't notice wiping me out.

EVERY. ONE.

I'm not good at pumping.

[Greenbane]

You need to build the pump stack one pump at a time, so that at no point are any of the pumps not supported by another pump beneath them.

That seems to be the case...

* In order to build pumps in a "hanging" state, as in the stacked screw pump example (below), one of its tiles must be able to connect to a nearby machine, either already existing or designated to be built. If, when the screw pump's construction is completed, the supporting mechanism has not yet been completed, it will promptly collapse into its component parts.

Since the dorfs would normally build it in a desorderly fashion, one 'weak' link is enough to destroy tons of effort. Makes little sense, really. Half the pump IS, after all, on solid ground. And it's presumably the heavier side, being the impassable tile.

I might give it another shot once I'm feeling immensely patient. It's incredibly frustrating. I just wanted to use magma in some fashion for the first time, but this isn't fun in any sense of the word.

[tommy521]

If it makes you feel any better, you're doing way better than me. I'm still too terrified to even try the damn things.

I loose more fortresses with pumps than goblins

[khearn]

I'm currently building my first pump stack up from magma. I've read that the dwarfs will start to build a pump when it's "supported" by a unfinished pump above or below it. But if they finish the pump and the pump that would support it isn't finished, the brand new pump will deconstruct. I suspect that's what's happening to you.

What I did was to build a bunch of mechanisms, then build a gear assembly on the floor next to where each future pump will be. This will support the pump if it's neighbors aren't yet finished. Then when everything is done I can reclaim the mechanisms if I want to, or just leave them there. So far it's working.

My pump stack top view:

Code: [Select]

Even levels:
#######
###...#
####P##
#X.*p##
####_##
#######

Odd levels:
#######
####_##
#..*p##
#X##P##
###...#
#######
# - Wall      _ - Channel
X - Stairs    . - Floor
* - Gear assembly for support
P - Pump, blocked square (output)
p - Pump, open square (input)

The gear assemblies don't provide power, that's routed through the pumps as usual. They just hold things up until it's all done. They don't need to be magma safe or anything. If you have an abundance of wood, you could also use horizontal axles.

My biggest headache is that when my miners cut the channel for transmitting power under the pumps on the even level layout above (under the P), they always trap themselves in the 1x3 area at the top. I then have to have them dig out the square left of the channel and I have to have a new wall constructed to fill the gap. I know how to keep the masons from trapping themselves, by declaring and suspending a wall to the north of the wall I want. Is there some similar trick to getting miners to dig from a preferred location?

[Ethnar]

As said in this thread already, pumps need support and a promise of a pump being built below will be enough... for a time.

If I remember correctly, every season change made DF to re-calculate which pump has support and which doesn't. This led to quite few of my pumps being deconstructed (of 149 pumps or so).

My advice: keep your materials close to the main shaft (all materials needed), have at least 4-5 dwarves assembling them (was it architecture?) and finally: you can try to build 5 pumps at a time, starting from the very bottom. Each 5 pumps you create will stay there for sure. Then, you order next 5, hope they don't fall apart, etc.

Myself? I've built them in bunch of 50, with about 3 dwarves working on it and the deconstruction was minor issue. (<3 macros, pump left, pump right, rinse, repeat..)

[Sidhien]

For keeping miners / masons from trapping themselves, I usually dig out something like this on each level

Code: [Select]

######
#.+.+#
##++##
##XX##
######

When everything is set up you can build a wall to keep the output contained.  This design is before I knew about the temperature thing though, so it'll need some tweaking.

As for pumps deconstructing, building mechanisms next to the pumps does a pretty good job.

[CapnUrist]

I have had the exact same problem as you, Greenbane, and with an 81 z-level stack for bringing up magma. The solution I found was based in the face that dwarves construct things in the FILO order, or First In, Last Out. What worked for me is instead of designating your stack from the bottom up to the top, which causes your dwarves to start building at the top, go in reverse: place a gear or axle at the top level of where the stack will be, and start designating from there down. You'll end up assigning the bottom pump last, and that will be the first one your architect tackles (if you have multiple architects/mechanics, it will be more risky but there shouldn't be too much variance in build order). The caveat to this is you must have all the materials ready before you start designating, or you won't make it to the bottom, and your pumps will fall anyway.

And from what I saw, pumps that are only supported by plans of another pump won't fall until the month or season changes, or at least that's how it was when I last built one.

[Xen0n]

I heard a rumour about creating a tower of gear assemblies parallel to the pumpstack to act as a temporary 'scaffold' and support it during construction, but can't speak to it's effectiveness. 

Honestly, all the horror stories I've heard about pump stacks have led to me never even bothering with them.  If you're working with magma, there's always the Magma Piston.  Although I suppose if you found a large undergound lake it could work with water as well.  I ended up genning a world with only 2 caverns and a few less layers so I only have 50~z-levels to magma, to try and mitigate the headache of all of that (Plus save a little FPS).

[Reiina]

I have to agree that pump stacks are a nightmare. Am I the only one hoping that one day we would get just tubes?

Like you build one magma pump near the magma sea, and you connect a series of tubes that go straight up from it.

Of course the level the magma could be pushed would be proportional to the power you can give the pump, so you would have to redirect a lot of power to the pump at the bottom.
Would make playing with magma more fun imo(and thus would ensure more !!fun!!).

[forsaken1111]

I have to agree that pump stacks are a nightmare. Am I the only one hoping that one day we would get just tubes?

Like you build one magma pump near the magma sea, and you connect a series of tubes that go straight up from it.

Of course the level the magma could be pushed would be proportional to the power you can give the pump, so you would have to redirect a lot of power to the pump at the bottom.
Would make playing with magma more fun imo(and thus would ensure more !!fun!!).

Would make water and magma simpler to use, yes.

[khearn]

I have to agree that pump stacks are a nightmare. Am I the only one hoping that one day we would get just tubes?

Like you build one magma pump near the magma sea, and you connect a series of tubes that go straight up from it.

Of course the level the magma could be pushed would be proportional to the power you can give the pump, so you would have to redirect a lot of power to the pump at the bottom.
Would make playing with magma more fun imo(and thus would ensure more !!fun!!).

The trouble is that the type of pump the dwarves use (Archimedes' screw) can only lift water as far as its top end. It can't pressurize it, except by lifting it to the top of a column. So using one to push water up a vertical pipe wouldn't work.