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Author Topic: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!  (Read 122766 times)

Crazy Cow

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #210 on: June 12, 2012, 12:39:43 am »

Or... I could just develop X@COM so slowly that by the time it's done, everyone has supercomputers at their disposal!

Sounds like a plan q;

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #211 on: June 12, 2012, 03:14:30 am »

I'll add some sort of relative damage indication to my list of features for probable inclusion, though the original X-COM didn't do that. I wonder if not having that information increases the suspense somewhat? Even what I have now, the "unscathed" log message, is already more info than you got in X-COM. Would make sense to have it for better informed tactical decision-making, of course. Anyone else with thoughts on this?

I personally can support being unable to tell just how badly you've hurt something, although in the interest of fairness I'd go with having it in anyway. Preferably with a sort of toggle in the options so that people can see if they're actually hurting their enemies if they so choose.
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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #212 on: June 12, 2012, 07:43:44 am »

Perhaps rather then a damage announcement per-say, what about something that gives you an indication of how bullet-riddled the enemy is? You might not know if its doing much actual damage, but it would let you know if you've already opened fire on it a few times. It still gives you some information, but doesn't break the suspense of not knowing whether the last volley resulted in minimal or almost fatal damage. It may have made holes, but it might not have hurt it too much. Alien physiology is a strange thing after all. Perhaps just with a descriptor for different weapon types. Slightly singed, burnt, melted, completely fried for plasma, some bullet holes, shot up, completely riddled, etc for bullet type damage. Maybe with just the most prevalent type of damage listed in the description.

Rather than "The sectopod is completely unscathed."
"The sectopod has been shot up with bullets" or "The sectopod has been melted with plasma."

Keeps it simple, descriptive, but doesn't really give away too much. It allows for those types of enemies, especially when modding is introduced more, that can be completely fried by plasma without it affecting them too much. It should also give a bit of an idea when an enemy is highly resistant to a particular type of damage. Completely riddled with bullets for the last 3 rounds and it's still alive and kicking? Must be fairly bullet resistant then.

Plus it would be pretty easy to code (1xshot=first descriptor, 5xshot=second descriptor, add damage type to end), just a simple string parsing. Being easy to code is very important :)

For low end testing, I've got an old 2Ghz Pentium 4, 1Gig of ram, laptop running XP sitting in my room. I'd be happy to pull it out and give X@com a test on it when the next version is ready (or have a crack at R5 on it) if you'd like. It should be crappy enough at refreshes to spot any gui rendering problems (or I'll just start a virus scan and load a few flash web pages and it definitely should slow right down).

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Kyzrati

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #213 on: June 12, 2012, 10:25:16 am »

I personally can support being unable to tell just how badly you've hurt something, although in the interest of fairness I'd go with having it in anyway. Preferably with a sort of toggle in the options so that people can see if they're actually hurting their enemies if they so choose.
Yeah, I'll certainly go the same route as Cogmind and have lots of features be optional, probably including extra damage information. I'm not sure exactly how detailed I'd want it to be, however, since then there are the players who would prefer not to have it, but feel like they're at an unnecessary disadvantage unless they turn it on (assuming it's available), so they feel obliged to do so and aren't as happy as a result... Hard to please everyone, I guess. I personally liked not having precise damage information even in Cogmind, though more than a few people complained until I added the option.

Perhaps rather then a damage announcement per-say, what about something that gives you an indication of how bullet-riddled the enemy is? You might not know if its doing much actual damage, but it would let you know if you've already opened fire on it a few times. It still gives you some information, but doesn't break the suspense of not knowing whether the last volley resulted in minimal or almost fatal damage. It may have made holes, but it might not have hurt it too much. Alien physiology is a strange thing after all. Perhaps just with a descriptor for different weapon types. Slightly singed, burnt, melted, completely fried for plasma, some bullet holes, shot up, completely riddled, etc for bullet type damage. Maybe with just the most prevalent type of damage listed in the description.

Rather than "The sectopod is completely unscathed."
"The sectopod has been shot up with bullets" or "The sectopod has been melted with plasma."

Keeps it simple, descriptive, but doesn't really give away too much. It allows for those types of enemies, especially when modding is introduced more, that can be completely fried by plasma without it affecting them too much. It should also give a bit of an idea when an enemy is highly resistant to a particular type of damage. Completely riddled with bullets for the last 3 rounds and it's still alive and kicking? Must be fairly bullet resistant then.

Plus it would be pretty easy to code (1xshot=first descriptor, 5xshot=second descriptor, add damage type to end), just a simple string parsing. Being easy to code is very important :)
I like the idea of resistances being hinted at indirectly in the text. Reporting enemy status rather than doing the standard damage announcement seems like a cool idea, too, though some players might be opposed to favoring status over damage. I believe the standard way to handle a status report would be to have it after the damage text (so they're both shown), but that might get a bit cluttered.

For low end testing, I've got an old 2Ghz Pentium 4, 1Gig of ram, laptop running XP sitting in my room. I'd be happy to pull it out and give X@com a test on it when the next version is ready (or have a crack at R5 on it) if you'd like. It should be crappy enough at refreshes to spot any gui rendering problems (or I'll just start a virus scan and load a few flash web pages and it definitely should slow right down).
Today I tried R6 (it's a lot more resource hungry than R5) on a 2.8GHz athlon (far slower than my own comp but still not too shabby), and it was using a max 20% of the CPU and everything worked fine. I also tried it out on my own computer using BES as suggested by Frumple. It's a neat little program that pretty much proved what I knew: The UI will not render properly if the game doesn't get all the CPU time it needs. I guess I just have to specify a minimum CPU requirement (RAM should really not be a problem, since the game doesn't use much).
So the questions become:
 1) Exactly how slow is too slow a CPU? I'd say the requirement is probably a pretty reasonable 1.6~2.0+ GHz.
 2) What the heck is happening to cause BishopX's game to actually slow down over time.
#2 is the troubling one, if that is what's happening here...

I'm pretty sure your 2GHz would still be able to run it without issue, though feel free to try R6 on it some day if you happen to have it out for something else. Can anyone else report experiencing actual performance degrading over time? And BishopX, does your game also have the UI rendering issues immediately on startup, or is that only after some play time?
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Greiger

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #214 on: June 12, 2012, 12:41:10 pm »

Ah it's been awhile since I last tried this out.  Lets see what has improved.

Quote
Emile Marcelle fires a carefully aimed shot from his fusion cannon.
The fusion blast hits the muton engineer
The muton engineer is unscathed
The fusion blast hits Emile Marcelle.
Emile Marcelle is disintegrated.
Tree trunk destroyed.
The fusion blast hits the sectoid engineer.
The sectoid engineer is disintegrated.

Yep, that's true to the origonal, mutons are still OP. :P
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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #215 on: June 12, 2012, 06:13:11 pm »

I don't have any knowledge about bishopX's situation at all, but there are some pretty nefarious tracking cookies out there that will ping out for more trackers in the background. Not really viruses or trojans, but it's suprising just how much cpu time they eat up. Even without a net connection, some of them still ping out their send request commands regardless.

Or viruses. Or trojans. I don't know what else it would be unless there's something going on in the background. A virus scan that runs at idle time? X@com could be considered idle time considering its low cpu usage, depending on thread priority and terminal window priority, Perhaps it could be the terminal window cacheíng the walls of text in X@com, updated god alone knows how many times a second. Is X@com actually still in terminal mode, or is it graphical texty? I don't even think windows will cache enough terminal text to mean that it ends up hitting limits on that bit, so I really don't know what could be causing it. Maybe "not" being able to cache it is the problem, having to re-write the cache file as it hits limits continuously.

I'll fire up the old P4 later today and see if I end up with something similar.
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Greiger

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #216 on: June 12, 2012, 06:42:00 pm »

I should probably point out that I also had a very light version of the missing letters thing BishopX seems to be reporting. (The R in targeting and N in control went awol on the help menu) but it is very rare.   Also I'm not seeing any slowdown.  I left the game running on Area51 while I was at school from 4:00PM to 7:30PM and the game does not run any slower than before I left.

I do have an IM program, firefox, notepad, Dwarf Fortress(paused), soundsense(a sound plugin for Dwarf Fortress), and winamp running alongside it.  But everything is running smooth as silk so nothing seems processing cycle starved.

My system specs are:
Intel core 2 duo @ 2.66 ghz
4 GB ram
ATI Radeon HD 4600 Graphics card
Vista Home Premium 32-bit

But as I said, no slowdown, I just occasionally lose a letter in the help menu once every 10 times or so I visit it.  Maybe that will help narrow it down.
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Kyzrati

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #217 on: June 12, 2012, 08:36:30 pm »

Is X@com actually still in terminal mode, or is it graphical texty?
X@COM doesn't use a terminal--it uses SDL-rendered bitmap fonts, so I'm pretty familiar with how it's updating, since I wrote all the code ;)

I do have an alternate version of the game loop that will *never* miss characters and always renders perfectly, but it's too slow for general use. I think BishopX's issue might be something unique about/on his own system, as you mention. Will just have to see if anyone else starts to report the same experience.

But as I said, no slowdown, I just occasionally lose a letter in the help menu once every 10 times or so I visit it.  Maybe that will help narrow it down.
Thanks for the info. FYI, the help window was a temporary one; it's already been replaced for R7 (unreleased) by something that should work as well as the normal windows.

Also I'm not seeing any slowdown.  I left the game running on Area51 while I was at school from 4:00PM to 7:30PM and the game does not run any slower than before I left.
You don't have to leave it running, by the way. In case you haven't found the command: use F8/F9 to quicksave/load. I'll eventually do autosaving/loading, but the main game menu and related UI elements won't be ready until several versions from now.

Quote
Emile Marcelle fires a carefully aimed shot from his fusion cannon.
The fusion blast hits the muton engineer
The muton engineer is unscathed
The fusion blast hits Emile Marcelle.
Emile Marcelle is disintegrated.
Tree trunk destroyed.
The fusion blast hits the sectoid engineer.
The sectoid engineer is disintegrated.

Yep, that's true to the origonal, mutons are still OP. :P
I love it!
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BishopX

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #218 on: June 12, 2012, 08:53:34 pm »

So I did some more testing (playing). My first report is that the game is fun. The second is that I would really like to get more information about my guys condition. the original X-Com did this badly, and the ASCII interface doesn't help.

In terms of performance, the game plays acceptably if I give it the DF treatment (no other programs running). There does seem to be a small memory leak, when I started my first game the application was using 17,000 kb, by the end of the third game it was using 24,000 kb. Aside from issues with the help screen I didn't document any scipped letters in the GUI, but by the end the application was consitantly using a full core of cpu and spiking to 100% when something graphically intensive happened (e.g. blaster shots).

[spoiler = Here are my notes]7:45 memory 46% cpu <10%, w/ occasional spike to 30%

Open R6 @ 7:47
cpu load rises to 30% with spikes to 90. 17,348k memory at the loading screen.

Opening help adds 2k memory and causes small cpu spike

7:53 alien with a heavy plasma out one soldier, cpu spikes to 50 for 30 sec and top of gui blanks out

8:03 cpu at 60% Xcom at 21184k

New Game, same instance
8:06 at 21,448

8:08 cpu spikes to 100 when opening help

8:11 after a heavy exchange of large weapons (AC, heavy plasma... CPU is at 68% memory at 21,604 and letters are highlighting in the log

8:15 tank shell hits sectiod leader, CPU spike to 100 for 5 sec, returns to 75% xcom now releiably using 1 core

8:24 after opening log very quickly after autocannon blast the left most colum doesn't display. xcom is using 55 cpu out of 70. mememory at 21776

I went for a walk, leaving game open.

9:26 returned, XCOMRL is using 56% cpu and 21,776 memory

TEST ENDS 9:36 WITH 23,864K MEMOY USED

Upon exiting cpu drops to 5%[/spoiler]
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Kyzrati

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #219 on: June 13, 2012, 11:09:14 am »

So I did some more testing (playing). My first report is that the game is fun.
Glad to hear it! And many thanks for doing this.

The second is that I would really like to get more information about my guys condition. the original X-Com did this badly, and the ASCII interface doesn't help.
Eventually when the game is done, or even half done, or even 25% done... X-COM commanders will be able drown themselves in as much extra info as they need. (The problem with releasing alpha builds is that demo players don't necessarily know all the essential features still residing on my long to-do list.) You'll get that and more once I have the mechanics done. I don't want to have to refactor a bunch of interface components due to core changes, so I've got to finish all that first.

In terms of performance, the game plays acceptably if I give it the DF treatment (no other programs running). There does seem to be a small memory leak, when I started my first game the application was using 17,000 kb, by the end of the third game it was using 24,000 kb. Aside from issues with the help screen I didn't document any scipped letters in the GUI
That is good, because I already replaced the help window.

, but by the end the application was consitantly using a full core of cpu and spiking to 100% when something graphically intensive happened (e.g. blaster shots).
100 is an unfortunately large number... It's true that blaster explosions do require a ton of calculations (they're what I use for stress tests, actually), but it's odd that a single 2.4 GHz core can't handle one, and then some.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thank you for the details--it is quite possible there are some small memory leaks in R6, since I was rushing to get that one out and didn't test for them like I did with previous releases. But those aren't yet a serious issue since the game isn't using much memory. I'll have those cleaned up for R7.

Looking over your report, it seems that CPU load hung around 50~60% most of the time, even comparing before and after your 1 hr break (except when firing something like a blaster, which makes sense), so average the load doesn't seem to be increasing after a while, which would have been the strangest issue. Maybe your CPU isn't operating at peak efficiency by now (5 years...), so it isn't really capable of 2.4 Ghz anymore (X@COM can only use one core for the game logic where most of the calculations are, so multiple cores don't help much, either). The spikes to 100% will definitely cause the game to fail to draw the UI properly, but in my own tests, 2.4 GHz should be enough to run the game without spiking to 100%, no matter what's going on.

We'll see how future releases pan out. Some degree of multithreading would certainly help, but I've never had much success with previous multithreading experiments.
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Kyzrati

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #220 on: June 17, 2012, 12:12:53 pm »

Chryssalids, Zombies, and Silacoids, oh my! Too bad you won't get to fight them until R7 is actually released (September, maybe), but you can at least read about some of what's going on in the meantime...
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Orb

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #221 on: June 17, 2012, 04:13:57 pm »

Nice! I would also like to report that Area 51 seems a bit too easy. Maybe that's the intention? *Shrug*. I survived with over half my troops intact.
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Kyzrati

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #222 on: June 17, 2012, 09:11:24 pm »

Nice! I would also like to report that Area 51 seems a bit too easy. Maybe that's the intention? *Shrug*. I survived with over half my troops intact.
Most complaints about *all* the levels are that they're way too hard. Orb, of course, says Area 51 is too easy.

I think I need a different version of the game for you, Orb--you're apparently too good ;D
(As I recall you were also one of the few Cogmind players to near the end of the game.)
I did intentionally make the R6 version of Area 51 a little easier than it used to be by adding in some extra firepower. I may have also slightly decreased the number of enemies. Sorry about that :). Don't worry, the next scenario I have in mind will definitely give you a run for your money. Eventually though, all the current demo scenarios will be scrapped once I design the mapping system.

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Scelly9

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #223 on: June 17, 2012, 09:16:50 pm »

"Half of MY ENTIRE SQUAD died. THIS IS TOO EASY!"
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Orb

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Re: X@COM - Where ASCII and X-COM Collide!
« Reply #224 on: June 17, 2012, 10:14:11 pm »

Quote
I think I need a different version of the game for you, Orb--you're apparently too good

You're too kind. I think you just need more aliens(5 more might work). The initial wave was tough, but I had a lot of meatshields(army bros) lieing around, so I kept my guys safe.  The reinforcements seemed a bit late too, for I had already killed almost all the aliens.(Might be an intentional case of "reinforcements arriving too late, to pick off the last guys and claim the glory"). Picking up alien tech helped a lot also. The watchtowers seemed nearly impervious to damage. They took a lot of fire before going down.

It is possible random generation was very kind to me.

Also, a bug: Snap shot with a plasma rifle has more accuracy than an aimed shot. Not sure if its been reported before, but might as well mention it.

"Half of MY ENTIRE SQUAD died. THIS IS TOO EASY!"

This is X-com my friend. I expect at least 80% casualty rate. It reminds me a lot of HMRC, actually.

"Edit" While playing this, I was thinking about X-com, The Two Sides, and how it was never finished. Is multiplayer a possibility?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 10:33:55 pm by Orb »
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