Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[King DZA]

Alright, i have a question. but Before i get right to that, i feel i should give a rundown of what happened to inspire my inquiry:

So, i was just tending to my fort, doing my best to avoid the inevitable end. When i'm told a goblin snatcher has been spotted. Feeling overconfident after fending off their last siege without any dwarven casualties, i decided to send my ragtag melee squad after the bugger.
Unsurprisingly, they failed to catch up to it, with only one hammerdwarf(lacking a warhammer, i should add)managing to make it out of the fort before it was long gone. Just then, i get a message that there is a goblin ambush, coming from the opposite flank the snatcher arrived from.

Call in the civilians, lift the drawbridge, ready the troops, ect. I then realize my warhammerless hammerdwarf is caught outside. I notice the ambush has come with only copper pikes and a bow. Pride still flowing through my veins, i decide to send out my entire military to take them out(yep, all ten of them). It is only after my dwarves gallantly charge into battle that i receive news of another ambush,this one of goblin swordsman. They show up right next to my marksdwarves who are distracted with the first ambush, and then...
I'll end it there. Needless to say, results weren't ideal. Ended up having to cheat by reverting back to my last save(undwarf-like, i know)and still ended up with two or three deaths on my part.

My question is, are invaders capable of advanced tactics, such as sending scouts, organized ambushes and whatnot, or was it just a horrible coincidence that the snatcher was around right before the ambush, and the swordgoblins were lagging behind a bit?

[Psieye]

Sheer coincidence. Ambush squads don't necessarily spawn in the same location as each other. The sword squad probably spawned somewhere further away (a different point on the edge of the map).

[Girlinhat]

I've noticed ambushes appearing frequently beside a caravan, to the point that I've had a caravan arrive and then instantly be stopped by a goblin ambush 2 tiles away, in such a way to indicate they spawned there.  But as for ambush size, composition, location, and timing, it's all random-ish.  Timing is always roughly the same as all civilization actions occur late in the season, so ambushes arrive with a caravan simply because they both arrive late.

[King DZA]

Lovely. For a minute there, i was worried i would have to start revamping my pathetic defenses to deal with strategical, intelligent enemies.

[BeforeLifer]

I would say its semi random as i have had like 4 goblin thives try to get past my main gate(war dogs FTW!) But then shortly after i get ambushed by like 2-3 squads of gobbos.

[Girlinhat]

I believe this is because thieves and ambushes spawn together, but thieves make a B-line, while ambushes loiter a little.  So thieves show up at the door sooner.

[BeforeLifer]

Ya so if you get a bunch of theives in a short time, its proboly gona be a good idea to get your military ready.

[Eddren]

But imagine if, suddenly, the Goblins suddenly gained strategical thinking after randomly throwing sieges at you for 10 years straight.
Militia chases a Thief that had snuck past the defenses, but as the Thief gets away, and Ambush suddenly appears. The Militia fights valiantly, but eventually gets killed, all save for one Dwarf, The dwarf goes back in, pulls the lever, and then runs into the Statue-Party.
Militia-survivor: We were almost all killed chasing a Gobbo!
Urist McKenzie: Sounds crazy, lad. Tell me about it!
Militia-Survivor: Well, he was a baby-snatcher, so we followed him out, chasing him away..When suddenly, out of nowhere, this ambush appeared! We fought them off, but then another appeared! And another! It was like..Oh, Armok..
Urist Mckenzie: What is it, lad?
Militia-Survivor: THEY'RE LEARNING! DEAR ARMOK, WE'RE DOOMED! BLAAAAAAH!!!!
Finally, the Militia-Survivor goes into a fell-mood, kills Urist Mckenzie, and makes a Mckenzie-Bone sword, which he then uses to fight off the thousands of Goblin Ambushes that pierce their defenses for the next twenty years, until they discover how to sneak trolls into the Fort.

[Oaktree]

How the attacks work (scout/thief, then ambush group) just appears to be intelligently designed and directed.

Is there any data on squad behavior once they're on the map regarding morale, actions, etc.? 

It seems to me that ambush (and siege) squads loiter different periods of time before coming towards the fort.  And some squads seem to be willing to break and run sooner than others (including leaders).  That, to me, implies that there might be something regarding morale, or possibly tactics, randomly assigned to the squad when it is spawned.

That squads mill around captured/killed leader locations is known, and then they eventually retreat or attack individually from there.  But I've also seen squads including the leader loiter on the edge of the map for an entire siege - and then bug out really quickly once their compatriots start to get killed. 

[NRDL]

This might be sheer coincidence, but it's great when you want to tell a good DF war story. 

Is there any way AT ALL to mod the ambushers and thieves to have better tactics? 

[Eddren]

If only there was some way to state when an Ambush should occur.
Such as:
KNOW_CARAVAN(When they know that a caravan will arrive, which only happens whenever they ambush at the same time as a Caravan.)
KNOW_THIEF(When they know a Kobold is about to steal something, which has a 10% chance of happening)
RANDOM(Automatic with Know_Caravan.)
ALL

[Girlinhat]

Thieves/babysnatches, ambush raids, proper ambushes, and sieges, are fairly hard coded.  You can increase size and frequency by increasing wealth, but aside from that, not a whole lot...

[Mitchewawa]

The smartest thing I've had an enemy do is use only lashers and bowmen in a siege. On Olm's. Through my riverside housing.

Fun fun fun!

[sambojin]

The implementation of military tactics for both you and your enemies is ages away. It is meant to be in the army arc (which is after the caravan arc). The game is currently in the initial, world defining bit of the caravan arc (sorting out farms, towns, cities and their supply and demand parts) as well as the initial/middle(?) stages of the secrets/undead/night-creature portion. It will probably take a couple of releases until the undead part is done, let alone some proper trading/diplomacy in the caravan arc. I'm hoping we'll get at least a few "place-holder" options along the way (essentially what caravans and liasons have been up until now) to play with in the sense of war in either a broader or tactical sense.

Who knows though. There is a "tactics" skill that is unused so far. When it will be used at all, I don't know. It's taken 6 month for this release, although this one will be a big, game-changing one from what I can gather.

Real undead, yes. Real towns/cities, yes. Really cool stuff in adventure mode, yes. Real trading/diplomacy/war in a tactical or strategic sense? Probably not.

I'd actually like a little less secrets/undead and some more buggy/exploitable/place-holder stuff for war/trade/diplomacy myself. What's being done is needed, time intensive and very, very cool (it will change the way modders, fortress players, adventurers and even just legends readers think of the game). But a reasonably quick to code set of place holders to expand trade, diplomacy and something in the military or squads/orders menu would probably make the game feel "larger" than any amount of necromantic goodies.

Although, I love my terrifying embarks. The tried, tested and somewhat true gibberish I often post on them is probably about to go out the window. I like going back to the drawing board to figure out what works for me. I doubt I'll have wrapped my head around it all before the next release (hopefully sooner than a half year interval).

Errm, so the answer is no. The enemies don't use tactics........ (wow, brevity is not my strongpoint).

[malvado]

It's true, there's not much tactics going on , allthough there seems to be a sheer coincidence on when things happen, for me at least :

*Ambushers loves to arrive when I'm working on outdoor / near the map projects.
*Thieves allways comes with the invaders in my case, it seems they are the ones to trigger the traps and help the military inside the fort.
*If there's a kid or someone fishing near a corner bet your cakes on the fact they are going to be either snatched or ambushed in a ratio 10 to 1.
*Super trained military loves to jump to their death : Fight on dodge safe areas and dont try to have a one mand stand and get him to push invaders to death.