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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 289452 times)

DJ

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3945 on: October 23, 2012, 12:34:48 pm »

Couldn't she plead 5th here?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3946 on: October 23, 2012, 12:36:47 pm »

You can only plead the 5th in the event that there is reason to believe your testimony would incriminate yourself. It is completely legal for the courts to order you to incriminate your friends.
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DJ

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3947 on: October 23, 2012, 12:43:37 pm »

Weren't they asking her about her involvement with the friends, ie potential illegal activities that she participated in? I mean, you can't exactly give a complete testimony of a crime you were a part of without incriminating yourself.
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palsch

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3948 on: October 23, 2012, 12:46:20 pm »

Refusing to cooperate with a grand jury is always punishable by contempt charges and up to 18 months in prison, except if you explicitly take the Fifth.

In this case all three of the individuals arrested were offered complete immunity from prosecution, so couldn't plead the Fifth because they couldn't incriminate themselves. Even if the admitted complicity to crimes they couldn't be prosecuted for them, so the Fifth Amendment didn't apply. I'm going from this article for that point.
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Jopax

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3949 on: October 23, 2012, 01:33:04 pm »

Waitaminute!

What exactly are they holding her for? Testifying for activity of the group is mentioned, but what activity exactly?

Where there anarchist actions, bombings, figths, rioting, anything but calling themselves anarchists?
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Nadaka

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3950 on: October 23, 2012, 01:35:15 pm »

Waitaminute!

What exactly are they holding her for? Testifying for activity of the group is mentioned, but what activity exactly?

Where there anarchist actions, bombings, figths, rioting, anything but calling themselves anarchists?

From what I understand, the action of being an anarchist, reading anarchist material, teaching anarchist beliefs, having anarchist thoughts, owning anarchist books or owning anarchist clothing.
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Jopax

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3951 on: October 23, 2012, 01:38:10 pm »

So basically thinking differently now lands you in jail.

Go America!

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sluissa

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3952 on: October 23, 2012, 01:38:22 pm »

I forget where, but somewhere there was mentioned vandalism as the official charge they were investigating.
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Jopax

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3953 on: October 23, 2012, 01:45:06 pm »

Something similar happened B&H some time ago, where some cars were set on fire, a local communist/anarchist activist (not really known for doing anything bad) was the primary suspect (no connection to the crime was apparent) and was arrested with all his books, HDD's and stuff taken into custody. He was released with all his stuff three days later, because they couldn't really hold him for something they couldn't prove he did.

But ya'know, they went trough all his stuff in those three days :I
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palsch

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3954 on: October 23, 2012, 02:05:25 pm »

This previous LA Times article had more context for the investigation;
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Plante is one of three activists being held at the Federal Detention Center near Seattle-Tacoma International Airport in an investigation of anarchists in the Pacific Northwest that has led to subpoenas in Seattle, Olympia and Portland. The secretive probe has raised alarm among civil rights advocates who say witnesses are being asked to answer questions not only about their own activities May 1 — Plante says she wasn't even in Seattle — but what they know about certain groups or organizations.

The investigation in Seattle is one of several across the U.S. targeting anarchists. Last month, three self-described anarchists pleaded guilty to plotting to blow up a bridge south of Cleveland. Three purported anarchists were arrested in Chicago in May and accused of conspiring to burn down buildings with Molotov cocktails during the NATO summit there.

One person, caught on camera, has pleaded guilty to bashing the door of the federal appeals courthouse in Seattle on May Day, an incident that elevated at least that part of the mayhem to a federal crime. Authorities said they are investigating whether anyone crossed state lines to riot — also a violation of federal law.

The FBI, citing the secrecy of the grand jury process, has declined to discuss the Seattle investigation, though an affidavit mistakenly released to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer suggested that several Portland activists were monitored as they traveled to Olympia just before the May Day demonstrations. It said text messages monitored by federal authorities established that they were among the black-clad protesters who damaged a federal courthouse and clashed with police that day.
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Scelly9

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3955 on: October 23, 2012, 02:21:55 pm »

I forget where, but somewhere there was mentioned vandalism as the official charge they were investigating.
The article mentioned that the investigation against her was launched a month before the alleged vandalism.
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sluissa

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3956 on: October 23, 2012, 02:34:41 pm »

So? Investigations are simply that, investigations. You get wind of something happening, you investigate it. There doesn't have to always be a definite crime happen for an investigation to occur. And since something did eventually happen, I wouldn't say the investigation was out of place.

Edit: It's also wrong to call it "alleged" vandalism. The vandalism DID occur. There is clear evidence of that. It's just not clear who, exactly, did it. That's what this whole investigation is about.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 03:00:37 pm by sluissa »
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3957 on: October 23, 2012, 03:12:02 pm »

The two things that bother me about it are the unnecessary confiscation of any political material, as if political orientation IS evidence.  It's equivalent to investigating terrorist suspects by confiscating Qurans.

and...

Quote
Plante says a Freedom of Information Act request she filed in the months after her apartment door was broken down by armed officials reveals that the grand jury investigating her was first convened in March, two months before the vandalism she is being accused of even occurred.

It reeks very strongly of certain nasty bits of history that people of the time usually claim didn't seem like a big deal until hindsight kicked in... and it's too small and vague a thing currently to say if it can really be called that, but then there have been such strong warning signs over the last several years that people like myself have just been waiting for it.  Investigations are not conducted in any nation with a pretense of political freedom by kicking in the doors of peaceful suspects and making threats.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 03:16:15 pm by SalmonGod »
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3958 on: October 23, 2012, 03:31:34 pm »

The government treating anarchists like pariahs isn't new, at all.
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Nadaka

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3959 on: October 23, 2012, 03:37:57 pm »

The government treating anarchists like pariahs isn't new, at all.

Just because it isn't new doesn't mean it isn't news.
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