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[Duuvian]

Don't they explain this oddity in the report? It might just be that they don't have access to real data and had to do with guesswork.

Or that's what they say because they didn't try and instead pocketed the money and it sounds suitable for them and their purposes and the purposes of the people supposed to be watching them.

[Reelya]

At the time the meme spreading in Western news was of "inflation spiralling out of control" in venezuela. this snippet from the IMF could have backed that up. The fact that the 2009 prediction for year 2012 was a full 25-30% higher inflation than actually occurred should tell you something.

IMF is a politicized institution. You just don't make "mistakes" of that magnitude especially when they're out of line with the last 10 years of data.

Inflation in Venezuela spikes up during recessions (probably due to their economy being largely an oil export one), to make the prediction of ever-growing inflation, you'd have to assume oil prices weren't going to recover after 2008 (the main source of Venezuelan revenues). Nobody was predicting oil prices to constantly drop from 2009 - 2014, so it makes no sense to assume Venezuela wouldn't recover.

Also (i've been following this story since 2006) every time inflation hits around 30% in venezuela they report it worldwide (with the implication that it's going to get higher), but no news when it drops again. Which seems deceitful since it never got BELOW 35% in the previous government, and it's never gone ABOVE that under Chavez. I can only think that if the transition had gone the other way (socialist => conservative) they would be highlighting the lower inflation as selling point.

Hell inflation in 1996 was 99.9% and no western media was proclaiming doom and gloom even then, because they were loyal little fascists selling cheap oil while letting their citizens starve in ghettos.

One interesting thing is one of Chavez's election promises - adhering to OPEC quotas. Before that, the previous administration were undercutting OPEC prices and exceeding the agreed quotas, whilst having EXTREMELY low taxes on extraction. Which American oil companies liked VERY much. Chavez promised, and delivered on adhering to OPEC agreements, and increasing extraction taxes (which have paid for expanding hospitals, schools and universities).

All the dubious nations Chavez is accused of being "buddies" with (evidence being diplomatic meetings) are fellow members of OPEC. The previous leaders had the same meetings, but nothing sinister was ever reported about THAT. Funny that most of the countries on America's "hit list" are OPEC nations. I'm sure it's just a coincidence though.
This is the real thing America is butthurt over:

At the time of Chávez's election, OPEC had lost much of its influence compared to when it was first created. A combination of OPEC members, including Venezuela, regularly ignoring quotas and non-OPEC countries such as Mexico and Russia beginning to expand on their own petroleum industries resulted in record low oil prices to which hurt the Venezuelan economy. One of Hugo Chávez's main goals as president was to combat this problem by re-strengthening OPEC and getting countries to once again abide by their quotas. Chávez personally visited many of the leaders of oil producing nations around the world, and in 2000, he hosted the first summit of the heads-of-state of OPEC in 25 years (the 2nd ever).[2] Goals of this meeting, held in Caracas, included recuperating the credibility of Venezuela in OPEC, defending oil prices, consolidating relations between Venezuela and the Arab/Islamic world, and to strengthen OPEC in general.

[SalmonGod]

So I've been seeing a lot of noise about the Keystone XL pipeline recently.  I guess the project has entered its initial stages.  There's been a lot of activism opposing.  Now celebrities are getting arrested over it.

[Sheb]

Well, he did offer asylum to Kadaffi during the Libyan revolution. Not nice.

[Zangi]

Well, he did offer asylum to Kadaffi during the Libyan revolution. Not nice.

Gotta stick it to the man whenever you can.  (Insert no worse then them justification.)

[Reelya]

He offered that while trying to broker a peaceful resolution.

"Not Nice" = "Lives Saved", i think that's a pretty good justification.

With Ghadaffi in exile, they could have had a peaceful transition.
The dude wouldn't step down if you offered to kill him, would he?

And there are plenty of nasty guys with asylum in the USA

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Gaddaffi wanted a last stand, and that's what he got. At no point was he willing to go into exile. Not many remember it, but there was a point where the Libyans tried pressuring him out politically. He hired mercenaries to gun down unarmed crowds in response.

[Reelya]

I'm referring to the idea that it was "Not Nice" of Venezuela to offer him exile, rather than anything directly about Ghadaffi himself.

I guess Obama's bombing is "nice" and Venezuela's diplomacy is "not nice".

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Considering that the NATO intervention was requested by the Libyans and turned the tide for them, while Venezuela was trying to give one of the world's worst dictators a way to get off scot free? Yeah, that's pretty much accurate.

[Reelya]

Nowhere near as bad as Mubarak, America's buddy. They try and not act all hurt that he's gone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/world/middleeast/17prexy.html

President Bush lavished praise on President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt on Wednesday, emphasizing the country’s role in regional security and the Israeli-Palestinian peace process while publicly avoiding mention of the government’s actions in jailing or exiling opposition leaders and its severe restrictions on opposition political activities.

Funny how he was PRAISED after rigging elections. Unlike other middle-east countries.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Firstly, Mubarak was an unfortunate necessity for trying to keep the Middle East together. The peace between Israel and Egypt is one of the most stabilizing elements in the region. Sadat was the intended keeper of that peace and his assassination could not have been foreseen. Breaking all that down to oust Mubarak would have killed the peace and lead to more wars between Israel and everyone else in the region. An internal overthrow was the only real way Mubarak could get gone without breaking the peace, and lo and behold that is what happened.

Secondly, no, Mubarak was a dictator but Gaddafi was off the fucking wall. Libya had been consistently recognized as one of the major areas of repression in the world alongside the likes of North Korea and Sudan before the revolution, Egypt by comparison was autocratic but basically livable.

Mubarak jailed dissidents, Gaddafi funded state terrorism. Mubarak censored people, Gaddafi ordered massacres. All bad, but I think you can see a divide in the level of bad.

[Zangi]

I freaking love how different perspectives can be portrayed with all these people.

[Reelya]

You obviously haven't heard about the disappeared people in Egypt

According to the Egyptian Organization for Human Rights, 701 cases of torture at Egyptian police stations have been documented since 1985, with 204 victims dying of torture and mistreatment.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/18/egypt-s-vanished-victims-of-state-security-force-kidnappings.html

Since the fall of Mubarak, thousands of Egyptians have vanished—allegedly at the hands of the State Security forces

That's just since Mubarak left, before he left:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/09/egypt-army-detentions-torture-accused

The Egyptian military has secretly detained hundreds and possibly thousands of suspected government opponents since mass protests against President Hosni Mubarak began, and at least some of these detainees have been tortured, according to testimony gathered by the Guardian.

The military has claimed to be neutral, merely keeping anti-Mubarak protesters and loyalists apart. But human rights campaigners say this is clearly no longer the case, accusing the army of involvement in both disappearances and torture – abuses Egyptians have for years associated with the notorious state security intelligence (SSI) but not the army.

The Guardian has spoken to detainees who say they have suffered extensive beatings and other abuses at the hands of the military in what appears to be an organised campaign of intimidation. Human rights groups have documented the use of electric shocks on some of those held by the army.

Mass "disappearing" has been going on for decades.
 
===

Sounds like Libya had a decent health system, he got life expectancy 3 years higher than Egypt, and PPP income was 2.5 times that of Egypt. So i'd dispute the "more livable" line without other data. Libyans were living longer and had much higher average incomes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

Well that might be misleading if all the wealth was concentrated, so let's look at GINI coefficient for income disparity. High income but poor equality could tell you people are doing it tough:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

They're pretty much the same on that measure, but Libyans had more money individually. I'm kinda dubious that Egyptians were doing heaps better than Libyans, based on the data I've seen so far.

[SalmonGod]

what.  the.  fuck.

Ok... I've seen many stories of brazen callousness from police.  I've seen them plainly execute people, while watched by dozens of cameras, and then claim it was an accident.  I've seen them deal out grievous injuries to people and then lock them up for several hours, while turning away anyone who attempts to offer emergency medical assistance.  I've seen them leave criminals convicted of minor crimes out in the Arizona sun until they burn to death.  I've seen them bowl over a group of motorcyclists while driving drunk on the job, and then get bailed out by their friends mishandling all the evidence to be inadmissible in court... and then all those who mishandled the event get promoted.

This is a new low.

And there is absolutely no way this can be seen as the bad behavior of a corrupt minority.  This is a clear message from the institution.

[Darvi]

Welp, that's it.

Who wants to form the Squad?