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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 294471 times)

Heron TSG

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3375 on: July 18, 2012, 01:03:35 am »
I know, and it's terrible. The difference being that my money instead goes to different sweatshop workers and not to the Waltons. (I hope? Who knows where they have all their fingers.)
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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
The Artist Formerly Known as Barbarossa TSG

SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3376 on: July 19, 2012, 01:47:14 pm »
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Quote from: Vector on October 06, 2011, 03:14:08 pm
Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

kaijyuu

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3377 on: July 19, 2012, 01:53:04 pm »
Because hitting someone as they're walking away and committing no crime is totally reasonable force.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3378 on: July 19, 2012, 03:14:34 pm »
Quote from: kaijyuu on July 19, 2012, 01:53:04 pm
Because hitting someone as they're walking away and committing no crime is totally reasonable force.

Even if someone is committing a crime, I'm of the opinion that any force in excess of what the suspect is using is unreasonable, but I don't think that's a common one.  If the suspect is completely non-violent, any bruise is unreasonable.  If the suspect is rowdy but not really dangerous, anything that endangers the suspect (firearms, batons, and even tazers) is unreasonable.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Quote from: Vector on October 06, 2011, 03:14:08 pm
Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Leafsnail

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3379 on: July 19, 2012, 03:20:44 pm »
I think here "reasonable" means "the officer could not have anticipated that his actions would lead to Tomlinson's death, thus making him innocent of manslaughter".  Whether or not he had any business hitting a nonviolent guy in the first place would be an issue for his disciplinary hearing (and maybe a charge of some kind of assault).
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Nadaka

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3380 on: July 19, 2012, 03:23:29 pm »
Quote from: Leafsnail on July 19, 2012, 03:20:44 pm
I think here "reasonable" means "the officer could not have anticipated that his actions would lead to Tomlinson's death, thus making him innocent of manslaughter".  Whether or not he had any business hitting a nonviolent guy in the first place would be an issue for his disciplinary hearing (and maybe a charge of some kind of assault).

That would make him innocent of murder, manslaughter still applies to reckless acts of violence that lead to an unintended death.
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3381 on: July 20, 2012, 07:28:24 am »
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Quote from: Vector on October 06, 2011, 03:14:08 pm
Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

scriver

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3382 on: July 20, 2012, 07:32:13 am »
...Dwarfy.
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Love, scriver~

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3383 on: July 20, 2012, 07:54:51 am »
That's not exactly right. Portland's indecent exposure law only applies to situations in which the individual is intentionally trying to set a sexual tone through their nudity. This guy's only intent was to protest the TSA, so the law clearly does not apply to him.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3384 on: July 20, 2012, 07:58:59 am »
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on July 20, 2012, 07:54:51 am
That's not exactly right. Portland's indecent exposure law only applies to situations in which the individual is intentionally trying to set a sexual tone through their nudity. This guy's only intent was to protest the TSA, so the law clearly does not apply to him.

Interesting... I'm sure you're not saying that I could just walk around naked in Portland, and the only thing I'd have to do is be casual enough about it?
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Quote from: Vector on October 06, 2011, 03:14:08 pm
Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3385 on: July 20, 2012, 08:01:40 am »
Quote from: SalmonGod on July 20, 2012, 07:58:59 am
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on July 20, 2012, 07:54:51 am
That's not exactly right. Portland's indecent exposure law only applies to situations in which the individual is intentionally trying to set a sexual tone through their nudity. This guy's only intent was to protest the TSA, so the law clearly does not apply to him.

Interesting... I'm sure you're not saying that I could just walk around naked in Portland, and the only thing I'd have to do is be casual enough about it?
Quote
§ 163.465¹
Public indecency

(1) A person commits the crime of public indecency if while in, or in view of, a public place the person performs:

(a) An act of sexual intercourse;

(b) An act of deviate sexual intercourse; or

(c) An act of exposing the genitals of the person with the intent of arousing the sexual desire of the person or another person.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Bauglir

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3386 on: July 20, 2012, 10:07:23 am »
... A and B seem redundant.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

kaijyuu

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3387 on: July 20, 2012, 10:11:27 am »
That's kinda awesome. I loathe public indecency laws (go nudism!) so loopholes amuse me.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3388 on: July 20, 2012, 10:11:38 am »
Quote from: Bauglir on July 20, 2012, 10:07:23 am
... A and B seem redundant.
Redundancy is a useful quality when you are dealing with something that thousands of lawyers are constantly trying to argue around. For example, the last clause in most constitutional amendments is that Congress shall have the power to legally enforce them, because if that isn't there you can argue in court that Congress does not have the power to make laws enforcing it, and that can work.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Bauglir

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #3389 on: July 20, 2012, 10:13:12 am »
Yes but surely there's no possible act that falls under B and not A.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
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