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[mainiac]

mainiac: they don't actually get money from the government, right? It's just like, theorical, and they effectively have a 0% tax rate. Right?

Two words: tax refunds.

Just to explicitly clarify, yes they can indeed get money from the government.

[Sheb]

So those corporations are actually paid billions by the government? I just don't get it. It's so... absurd.

[mainiac]

Well we as a nation have decided that there are things that we want to subsidize.  We've decided to subsidize R+D.  We've decided to subsidize employer sponsored healthcare.  We've decided to subsidize investment in capital investment in durable goods, buildings and other infrastructures.  We've decided to subsidize exploratory oil drilling.  The list goes on and on.  And what does subsidizing mean?  It means that you give money to the people who do it.  This money takes the form of tax rebates.

Some companies do a lot of the things that we've decided to subsidize.  So much in fact that their subsidies are greater then their tax burden.  So they get a check from the government.  It's honestly not that absurd.  We just are trying to subsidize every damn thing with tax credits.  What is absurd is that we are using government subsidies for things that the government would do itself if it weren't for all the "free market" lower government spending at all cost advocates in congress.

When politicians like Obama talk about revenue neutral corporate tax reform, they're talking about ending or reducing these subsidies and using those savings to reduce the corporate tax rate.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Basically, subsidies are how American politicians keep the country from imploding when anything directly government-backed gets shot down by the "socialist" stigma.

[mainiac]

Basically, subsidies are how American politicians keep the country from imploding when anything directly government-backed gets shot down by the "socialist" stigma.

More or less.  But we use them even when we shouldn't.  Two of the largest tax subsidies in our tax code are subsidies for home mortgages and employer sponsored mortgages.  It doesn't take a genius to understand that underinvestment in residential real estate and employer sponsored healthcare are the least of our worries.

[Mr. Palau]

Those dollar values are so small. How are you supposed to buy people with so little money?

I imagine it adds up.  This is a small list of only companies that paid no taxes.  Its focus isn't really on the political donations, but on the imbalance of paying no taxes while enjoying such huge profits.

On a quick search, the total amount spent on lobbying last year was $3.31 billion.

why is there a debate over the buffet rule when Warren could clearly just buy the government for the next 13 or so years?

I have this image in my mind of the capitial building with a sign on the lawn that says "For Sale, 3,310,000,000$"

Which is at the same time such a huge amount and such a tiny amount.  We could ban all political contributions and give all viable candidates enough public financing to make up the difference and it would be a drop in the bucket for the federal budget.

Yeah. Then there is bribes though, but those are much less effective and much more overt, illegal, and immoral.

[mainiac]

Warren Buffet's net worth is only around 45 billion.  The federal budget is like 3600 billion IIRC.

Also, voluntary donations make a really bad revenue stream for governments.  What happens when the rich people want the government to change some policy?

[Mr. Palau]

Warren Buffet's net worth is only around 45 billion.  The federal budget is like 3600 billion IIRC.

Also, voluntary donations make a really bad revenue stream for governments.  What happens when the rich people want the government to change some policy?

No I meant as in Warren buffet could pay the campagian contributions, and then get the government to do whatever he want it do for 12 years.  Not finance the governmnet through donations.

[SalmonGod]

Not that the Occupy movement itself ever went away, but it's been too long since I posted anything relevant to what's going on...

Occupy Wall Street — for Real This Time

[Lagslayer]

Warren Buffet's net worth is only around 45 billion.  The federal budget is like 3600 billion IIRC.

Also, voluntary donations make a really bad revenue stream for governments.  What happens when the rich people want the government to change some policy?

No I meant as in Warren buffet could pay the campagian contributions, and then get the government to do whatever he want it do for 12 years.  Not finance the governmnet through donations.

But what is the real issue here? The people donating their money or the people that are so easily corrupted by the donations?

[Frajic]

Warren Buffet's net worth is only around 45 billion.  The federal budget is like 3600 billion IIRC.

Also, voluntary donations make a really bad revenue stream for governments.  What happens when the rich people want the government to change some policy?

No I meant as in Warren buffet could pay the campagian contributions, and then get the government to do whatever he want it do for 12 years.  Not finance the governmnet through donations.

But what is the real issue here? The people donating their money or the people that are so easily corrupted by the donations?

The system that makes them depend on the goodwill of the rich.

[mainiac]

The issue is that so much is wrong we don't know what to be mad at first.

[Lagslayer]

Well, what does everything have in common?

[sluissa]

Human beings. Therefore, we know what to do...

EDIT: Or is that "people." I'm not sure anymore.

[Mr. Palau]

Human beings. Therefore, we know what to do...

EDIT: Or is that "people." I'm not sure anymore.

The Time of Meat is Ending!

Not that the Occupy movement itself ever went away, but it's been too long since I posted anything relevant to what's going on...

Occupy Wall Street — for Real This Time

Warren Buffet's net worth is only around 45 billion.  The federal budget is like 3600 billion IIRC.

Also, voluntary donations make a really bad revenue stream for governments.  What happens when the rich people want the government to change some policy?

No I meant as in Warren buffet could pay the campagian contributions, and then get the government to do whatever he want it do for 12 years.  Not finance the governmnet through donations.

But what is the real issue here? The people donating their money or the people that are so easily corrupted by the donations?

Sortition is the only solution!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition
(read some of article before reading so you know what I mean)
Some form of special selection is required. Like diffrent committies that have diffrent powers governing diffrent subjects and are formed of members knowledgable on those subjects elected through Sortition. Education committie is made up of half parents and half teachers. Nuclear regulatory committie is made up of nuclear engineers, and anti nuclear activists, the latter is really only there to try and point out stupid things being done by the former.