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[ChairmanPoo]

The masses never revolt of their own accord, and they never revolt merely because they are oppressed. Indeed, so long as they are not permitted to have standards of comparison, they never even become aware that they are oppressed. The recurrent economic crises of past times were totally unnecessary and are not now permitted to happen, but other and equally large dislocations can and do happen without having political results, because there is no way in which discontent can become articulate. As for the problem of overproduction, which has been latent in our society since the development of machine technique, it is solved by the device of continuous warfare (see Chapter III), which is also useful in keying up public morale to the necessary pitch. From the point of view of our present rulers, therefore, the only genuine dangers are the splitting-off of a new group of able, underemployed, power-hungry people, and the growth of liberalism and scepticism in their own ranks.

[Euld]

Is there a country that doesn't venerate materalism?

[Kogut]

Destroy capitalism. Excellent idea. Planned economy is sooooo effective... </sarcasm>

[Angle]

Destroy capitalism. Excellent idea. Planned economy is sooooo effective... </sarcasm>

Oh please. Have you been reading any of my posts? I have an alternative that is most certainly not a planned economy. I've even mentioned wanting to do things slowly, so that we can find solutions to any problems and so that if this system in untenable, we can revert with out too much hassle.

Is there a country that doesn't venerate materalism?

very few other countries do so to the extent that we do.

[ChairmanPoo]

Planned economy can work pretty well, in the right circumstances. Capitalism can work pretty well, in the right circumstances. Let's not jump into the standard generalizations.

[Montague]

Is there a country that doesn't venerate materalism?

Afghanistan comes to mind.

[SalmonGod]

Destroy capitalism. Excellent idea. Planned economy is sooooo effective... </sarcasm>

This is a false dichotomy that needs to go away.  We can come up with other methods of dynamically allocating resources to our wants and needs.  Currency is not the only possible means of facilitating an unplanned economy.

Personally, I think our economy and politics need to evolve into a memetic form.  I'm not talking about stupid jokes.  I'm talking about direct communication that spreads in a natural fashion and unites people into action that they have a direct interest and belief in.  I think that this is the natural way for civilization to progress at this stage of mass communication.  It's already happening in many ways.  The right tools have just not been made to facilitate it with the proper procedures and scale that we need.

The masses never revolt of their own accord, and they never revolt merely because they are oppressed. Indeed, so long as they are not permitted to have standards of comparison, they never even become aware that they are oppressed. The recurrent economic crises of past times were totally unnecessary and are not now permitted to happen, but other and equally large dislocations can and do happen without having political results, because there is no way in which discontent can become articulate. As for the problem of overproduction, which has been latent in our society since the development of machine technique, it is solved by the device of continuous warfare (see Chapter III), which is also useful in keying up public morale to the necessary pitch. From the point of view of our present rulers, therefore, the only genuine dangers are the splitting-off of a new group of able, underemployed, power-hungry people, and the growth of liberalism and scepticism in their own ranks.

Also, what is this from?

[ChairmanPoo]

1984

[SalmonGod]

1984

Should have known.  Damnit, I still have not read that book.  Can you believe it?  Of all people, you'd think I would be the last one on the planet to have not read it

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Is there a country that doesn't venerate materalism?

Afghanistan comes to mind.

Afghanistan is the heart of the Golden Crescent and center of the world's poppy farming (And where those poppies are processed into heroin, which is then sold across the world until it reaches the US.)

The Taliban need food and weapons like any other armed force does, and this is how they get the money to buy those vital things. It is no coincidence that the Afghan provinces where poppy is grown and processed are the ones where the Taliban have the most control.

Side Note: Introducing said fields to gratuitous amounts of napalm would probably go along way to breaking down the Taliban's power. It doesn't matter how ideologically motivated you are, fighting while half-starved and without any bullets isn't a viable situation.

[Angle]

But didn't the taliban declare a ban on opium before we invaded?

[Sheb]

Maybe they did, but now they need financing badly. For an Afghan guerilla it can only come from poppies and gems. Also, a lot of peasants are farming poppies because it's the most profitable thing and there is no law enforcement to speak of.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

But didn't the taliban declare a ban on opium before we invaded?

When the Taliban were in power they had a ban on everything imaginable.

Under the Taliban regime, Sharia law was interpreted to forbid a wide variety of previously lawful activities in Afghanistan. One Taliban list of prohibitions included: pork, pig, pig oil, anything made from human hair, satellite dishes, cinematography, and equipment that produces the joy of music, pool tables, chess, masks, alcohol, tapes, computers, VCRs, television, anything that propagates sex and is full of music, wine, lobster, nail polish, firecrackers, statues, sewing catalogs, pictures, Christmas cards.[115] They also got rid of employment, education, and sports for all women, dancing, clapping during sports events, kite flying, and characterizations of living things, no matter if they were drawings, paintings, photographs, stuffed animals, or dolls. Men had to have a fist size beard at the bottom of their chin. Conversely, they had to wear their head hair short. Men had to wear a head covering.[116]

Like Wahhabi and other Deobandis, the Taliban do not consider Shiʻi to be Muslims. The Shia in Afghanistan consist mostly of the Hazara ethnic group which totaled almost 10% of Afghanistan's population.[120]

The Taliban were averse to debating doctrine with other Muslims. "The Taliban did not allow even Muslim reporters to question [their] edicts or to discuss interpretations of the Qur'an."[121]

The Taliban forced women to wear the burqa in public.[123] They were allowed neither to work nor to be educated after the age of eight, and until then were permitted only to study the Qur'an.[9] They were not allowed to be treated by male doctors unless accompanied by a male chaperon, which led to illnesses remaining untreated. They faced public flogging in the street, and public execution for violations of the Taliban's laws.[44]

Women were required to wear the burqa, a traditional dress covering the entire body except for a small screen to see out of. Taliban restrictions became more severe after they took control of the capital. In February 1998, religious police forced all women off the streets of Kabul, and issued new regulations ordering people to blacken their windows, so that women would not be visible from the outside.[125]

But on the subject of opium their views had a tendency to waver:

Another criticism was that the Taliban called their 20% tax on truckloads of opium "zakat", which is traditionally limited to 2.5% of the zakat-payers' disposable income (or wealth).[132]

Opium poppies are a traditional crop in Afghanistan, and, with the war shattering other sectors of the economy, opium became its largest export.

    "The Taliban have provided an Islamic sanction for farmers ... to grow even more opium, even though the Koran forbids Muslims from producing or imbibing intoxicants. Abdul Rashid, the head of the Taliban's anti-drugs control force in Kandahar, spelled out the nature of his unique job. He is authorized to impose a strict ban on the growing of hashish, "because it is consumed by Afghans and Muslims." But, Rashid told me without a hint of sarcasm, "Opium is permissible because it is consumed by kafirs in the West, and not by Muslims or Afghans."[142]

In 2000 Afghanistan's opium production accounted for 75% of the world's supply. On July 27, 2000, the Taliban issued a decree banning cultivation.[143] By February 2001, production had reportedly been reduced from 12,600 acres (51 km2) to only 17 acres (7 ha).[144] Opium production was reportedly cut back by the Taliban not to prevent its use, but to increase its price, and thus increase the income of Afghan poppy farmers and tax revenue.[145]

So yes, they enacted an opium cultivation ban. In the last year of their rule. For the sole purpose of making more money.

And as Sheb said, gems:

The Taliban took over emerald mines in Pakistan's Swat valley (not a tribal area), once the 'Switzerland of Pakistan', a popular tourist area for skiers. The government did not react to the move. The Taliban reached an agreement with the region's mining labor allowing the Taliban to keep one-third of the miners' output, while equally sharing costs. The Taliban does not take part in the mining operations.[148]

In short, the Taliban are the closest thing I've ever seen to absolute pure fucking evil and regardless of the motivations for US intervention in Afghanistan I am glad that it happened, if only so the Taliban are out of power.

[Sheb]

17 acres? How can you make money with only 17 acres of poppies?

[Criptfeind]

By charging a thousand times as much and misunderstanding how supply and demand works?