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[Tellemurius]

Now, I'm not sure about American law, but if you (the plaintiff?) don't show up for a court case, it is dismissed, is it not?

Why theres a group representing, like a lawyer representing you in court for your crimes.

[Dsarker]

Now, I'm not sure about American law, but if you (the plaintiff?) don't show up for a court case, it is dismissed, is it not?

Why theres a group representing, like a lawyer representing you in court for your crimes.

And that group disappears in the night.

[Heron TSG]

Oh hey, I was just here to talk about this.

That's the link to a counterpetition on that.

Spoiler: In other news... (click to show/hide)

[SalmonGod]

Now, I'm not sure about American law, but if you (the plaintiff?) don't show up for a court case, it is dismissed, is it not?

Why theres a group representing, like a lawyer representing you in court for your crimes.

And that group disappears in the night.

Fearmongering was definitely not my intention here.  I'm as cynical as anyone.  I do believe that our government "disappears" people.  It has done this for most of the past century, really.  However, I don't believe that it's common or taken lightly, especially at home.  At worst, this is something that could make the practice slightly more common and easier to get away with, but it's not like groups of people and then anyone else who gets curious about it are going to start disappearing.  Regardless of legality, that's not something they can get away with here... yet.  As bad as our culture here is, I don't think it's so bad that they can afford to pull that kind of switch into obvious totalitarianism, without troublesome numbers of people getting dangerously angry.  We're at a stage where they still need to do things gradually and always have a good excuse.  I'm not worried about this being anything more than one more small step.

[Dsarker]

Wait. Your government already disappears people.... And you aren't trying to stop it?

[Aqizzar]

Wait. Your government already disappears people.... And you aren't trying to stop it?

Why do you assume that to be the case?  God I hate arguments like this.  Every damn time it's the same thing, the person trying to acknowledge an unconfirmable reality is believed to be sympathizing with it because they're the ones breaking the news to you.  Jesus, just try to think when holding a conversation.

[SalmonGod]

I don't even know where to start.  Just google the term "extraordinary rendition".  I'll just leave it at that.

And I'm doing what I can.  It's why I'm here in this thread, spreading and discussing information.

[Dsarker]

The very fact that they disappear people should be major news. Dammit, you're the Americans, the country whose very founders didn't even trust the government.

[SalmonGod]

The very fact that they disappear people should be major news. Dammit, you're the Americans, the country whose very founders didn't even trust the government.

You have no idea how many hundreds of times I've been told to take my tin foil hat somewhere else, by fellow Americans.

[Heron TSG]

The very fact that they disappear people should be major news. Dammit, you're the Americans, the country whose very founders didn't even trust the government.

You have no idea how many hundreds of times I've been told to take my tin foil hat somewhere else, by fellow Americans.

Don't you know that the foil is how the government amplifies and reads your brain waves to find you? Once they find you, you just up and vanish. Don't go anywhere near tin if you can help it, maaaaaan.

[SalmonGod]

So all this time, everyone really has believed me, but couldn't admit it because the hat made me an unwitting mole!  How did I not see this sooner?!

[Aqizzar]

The very fact that they disappear people should be major news. Dammit, you're the Americans, the country whose very founders didn't even trust the government.

There have been several movies made about it, countless hours of news coverage, Congressmen shouting themselves hoarse, and God knows how many books.  It is major news.  That's part of why its so incredibly rare.  But guess what?  Americans, like most people in the world, don't really give a shit about rare occurrences as long as it doesn't happen to anyone they know.  And while I certainly don't know the exact numbers, the total of "extraordinary renditions" can't have been more than thousand people or so, most of them not American citizens.  So, y'know, it's an easy problem for most people to hear about and either say "bullshit" or "I always knew that", as their personal predilections may so inform them, and go on with their own lives.

[Dsarker]

So why the hell hasn't it been stopped?

[SalmonGod]

Here's a relevant paraphrase from what I told a friend (who turned his back on America and moved to S Korea years ago) when he asked me about the Occupy movement.

The 99% is evenly divided between those who worship the rich and powerful and all their abuses, those who are content enough to avoid being bothered with it and still believe that everything could be resolved by voting for the right guy (strongly enough to condemn a counter-culture), and those who believe that it's up to them to stick up directly for themselves or be cast out by society like an obsolete iPod.

[scriver]

Because obviously a group that is discontent with it and still believes they can change it by voting/through the system would never exist.

and those who believe that it's up to them to stick up directly for themselves or be cast out by society like an obsolete iPod.

Give me a guess of which group you think you yourself belong to? I'd take a chance on the martyrs.