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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 297430 times)

Zangi

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1830 on: November 25, 2011, 12:12:55 pm »

Dont forget that a large number of those involved in the UK riots were oportunistic in thier approach to casual criminality enabled by circumstances. The Occupy movement is more organized and has peaceful intent at heart, not the desire for a new TV simply as its more probable you can get away with it during unrest.
Media/Politicians will still home in on thieves like radar guided missiles and paint the whole OWS as such.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1831 on: November 25, 2011, 12:41:52 pm »

Yes, which is why the Occupy movement should steer clear of all and any uses of violence and force if it wishes to have any effect at all on public and political opinion.

palsch

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1832 on: November 25, 2011, 12:47:58 pm »

The problem with the UK riots is that, the way I see it, it was basically an unformed fit of rage against the way things work, namely capitalist exploitation, that degenerated into meaningless destruction.
The riots were not rage against capitalism. They started due to rage against police. There was no political statement being made beyond "fuck the police", rapidly dissolving into "fuck society".

You can make a case that their scale was due to a lack of opportunity for young people, or the creation of a permanent 'underclass' (really hate that term), or any of a dozen other progressive explanations. I do think there are some good points to be made there (although as a progressive who has tried to do work in this area, I'd be very careful about making them). But it's important not to mistake them for a political response to those causes. Rather they are, at most, a symptom of what the Occupy movement is trying to reduce.

If Occupy start looking like that they are trying to prevent, what is the point?
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Itnetlolor

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1833 on: November 25, 2011, 12:55:03 pm »


EDIT:
Funny thought, Tropico is actually a good sim game for this kind of stuff. Have an island with an economic problem, and find a way to fix it to make everyone happy (high cumulative political and happiness score to win, along with a high enough island value/cash on hand, and you start in total crap (<20 cumulatively in both categories, and it starts off in high chaos/revolution/coup potential, and only enough money to make little improvement anywhere; no random events that influence the outcome. Just a sandbox situation starting from a completely hostile startup.)). Somebody needs to make a non-biased scenario based on what's going on to challenge anyone from any walk of life to come up with a reasonably sound solution within short notice. 5 years to fix a major economic problem with limited resources. Actually, just about any sim game can turn this chaos into a fun and somewhat practical means of finding a solution. Also doubles as a means of seeing how good a leader someone truly is as well.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 01:08:10 pm by Itnetlolor »
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Pnx

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1834 on: November 25, 2011, 01:25:24 pm »

I have to admit I have been pretty impressed by the integrity of the occupy movement, there has been very little rioting and violence. I was honestly expecting more, but I think it's seriously working much better than all the riots did in the UK. All those riots did was convince the country the problem was "moral collapse", when really it was desperation and disaffection caused by poor relations with the police and poor economic mobility and conditions.

All the riots did was get people to encourage the police to crack down harder in the future.


You guys have played liberal crime squad right? What's the one thing you don't want to do? That's right, alienate the masses. Which is why I'm very glad they're mostly non-violent protests so far.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1835 on: November 25, 2011, 05:22:57 pm »

Was happy to find this.

Glad someone took the time to dismantle this display of self-satisfied ignorance that's been getting passed around.  Now I can drop this link every time I see someone sharing the video.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1836 on: November 25, 2011, 06:34:16 pm »

Right, so the media in America is actively seeking the opportunistic criminals and painting them to be everything the occupy movement is about....



.....But that doesn't apply at all to the riots?

Karakzon

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1837 on: November 25, 2011, 07:08:20 pm »

The mainstream media gets funds from people whos best interest is to keep the status quo.
As such, you can get a general gist of whats happening, but to rely on it for details is pure folly.

Its also been shown in a poll that some stations will even make no news the preferable option:
http://popwatch.ew.com/2011/11/22/fox-news-poll/

To be fair, i hope anon bangs together a news station themselfs, online to tell the world the unbiased facts of affairs.
-if thye already have, ide love a link- i hope anon does alot of things. It wouldnt take much if it was shown anything they put together for a certain affair was empiricaly more reliable than our current choices to put alot of people with alot of money in hot water.
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Osmosis Jones

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1838 on: November 25, 2011, 07:30:48 pm »

To be fair, i hope anon bangs together a news station themselfs, online to tell the world the unbiased facts of affairs.

They have a twitter feed... but honestly, do you really think their video footage would be anything other than 30 minutes of penis set to the leek-spin song? This is anonymous; they are all the bad things on the internet made flesh :P
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1839 on: November 25, 2011, 07:34:47 pm »

To be fair, i hope anon bangs together a news station themselfs, online to tell the world the unbiased facts of affairs.

All I can think about when I read this is this image.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Heron TSG

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1840 on: November 25, 2011, 07:49:21 pm »

Spokane, the second largest city in Washington State, is run by hypocrites, apparently. The police are telling the Occupiers in Franklin Park that camping in a tent within city limits is strictly illegal, on private or public property. The police have tried to use the legal system to remove the protesters several times now, and now they've shot themselves in the foot. They went and stood guard over some of the encamped shoppers in the days before Black Friday. Not only allowing them to camp, but aiding them in doing so.

Herpderpderp.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1841 on: November 25, 2011, 07:53:45 pm »

Spokane, the second largest city in Washington State, is run by hypocrites, apparently. The police are telling the Occupiers in Franklin Park that camping in a tent within city limits is strictly illegal, on private or public property. The police have tried to use the legal system to remove the protesters several times now, and now they've shot themselves in the foot. They went and stood guard over some of the encamped shoppers in the days before Black Friday. Not only allowing them to camp, but aiding them in doing so.

Herpderpderp.

I'm seeing this observation all over the place.  Makes me happy.

Edit:

Might be too political for the happy thread, so I'll put this here.  Bush cancels visit to Switzerland because of a real threat that he'll be arrested for war crimes.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 08:00:21 pm by SalmonGod »
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1842 on: November 25, 2011, 08:03:15 pm »

Spokane, the second largest city in Washington State, is run by hypocrites, apparently. The police are telling the Occupiers in Franklin Park that camping in a tent within city limits is strictly illegal, on private or public property. The police have tried to use the legal system to remove the protesters several times now, and now they've shot themselves in the foot. They went and stood guard over some of the encamped shoppers in the days before Black Friday. Not only allowing them to camp, but aiding them in doing so.

Herpderpderp.
The Black Friday campers are being good consumerists.

I don't exactly like phrasing it like that, but that's how the situation looks to me.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1843 on: November 25, 2011, 09:15:38 pm »

That's from the perspective of the 1%.  To everybody else, I think it's a contrast of what's normal vs abnormal. 

It's normal for people to go out of their way for the promise of a good deal and maybe even get over competitive.  It's even normal to make the observation that this is the symptom of a sick society and something needs to change, so long as it stays in the realm of idle comments and headshaking.  It's abnormal to actually leave the comfort of your home to try and make that change.  There's something wrong with those people.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1844 on: November 25, 2011, 11:18:22 pm »

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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.
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