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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 294412 times)

KaelGotDwarves

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1380 on: November 09, 2011, 10:21:52 pm »

I'd argue that one is still a populist movement while the other is a now co-opted scheme bankrolled by a few main sources.

Willfor

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1381 on: November 09, 2011, 10:33:53 pm »

And?

I never said that one wasn't objectively better than the other. I was arguing against thinking that whatever you attach yourself to is the ideal and perfect movement that is sinless and blameless and that the other side is evil incarnate. I realize this is hyperbole, but words are often thrown around that are painting great swaths of individuals in poor lights, and this is going on on both sides.

Imagine that, the Christian here is arguing for some grey thinking.

This isn't a time for attempting to burn bridges. This is a time for people to try to come together if you want the numbers you'll need to actually make a difference. Reaching out to people is much more effective than slapping them in the face, and then wondering why they're not listening to you.


I heard on the news this morning that police in Ontario finally forced something of a confrontation with occupiers in one of the cities, and that the occupiers lost all of their tents. That's ... not really good going into a winter season. I haven't been to my own nearby city's occupy movement, but I doubt there's going to be any police confrontations at all. This city is too passive aggressive.
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KaelGotDwarves

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1382 on: November 09, 2011, 10:39:15 pm »

Well, it makes a hell of a lot of difference.

It's true that you see quite a few Conservatives out for Occupy - but let's be honest, I haven't seen or heard of any Tea Partiers joining up.

Willfor

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1383 on: November 09, 2011, 10:41:26 pm »

Well, it makes a hell of a lot of difference.

It's true that you see quite a few Conservatives out for Occupy - but let's be honest, I haven't seen or heard of any Tea Partiers joining up.
If you could point out where we're disagreeing, I would appreciate it. I honestly have no idea how to respond because I am not arguing against what you're saying. At least I don't think I am.
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In the wells of livestock vans with shells and garden sands /
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ECrownofFire

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1384 on: November 10, 2011, 12:08:16 am »

Well, it makes a hell of a lot of difference.

It's true that you see quite a few Conservatives out for Occupy - but let's be honest, I haven't seen or heard of any Tea Partiers joining up.
About that...

Yes, that is a founder of the Tea Party saying that he agrees with OWS.
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KaelGotDwarves

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1385 on: November 10, 2011, 01:50:31 am »

On a more pressing matter - Occupy protesters and students getting hit with batons at UC Berkeley during faceoff with police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buovLQ9qyWQ

Truean

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1386 on: November 10, 2011, 05:37:18 am »

On a more pressing matter - Occupy protesters and students getting hit with batons at UC Berkeley during faceoff with police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buovLQ9qyWQ

Exactly how dumb are these police? You're outnumbered. This turns into a riot you're not going to come out of it well.... Shit, if they cause a panic, people could get trampled to death.... [sigh] Even then, who do you think will won't be voting for your police levy taxes in the future.... Seriously, have everyone there sign a pledge saying they will systematically for the rest of their lives NEVER vote for any police funding if a single person gets beaten. Hit em in the wallet if they hit you.... How's about 100K signatures to that effect....
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 05:42:47 am by Truean »
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scriver

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1387 on: November 10, 2011, 05:52:00 am »

What kind of dumbshit procedure is that anyway, even beside the violence, I mean? Notice have several police has their batons grabbed and one almost it taken from him? And, what to move them a couple of metres back? The police line almost gets pushed backwards in the beginning, for crying out loud.

And also those two policemen beating the guys into the bush down to the left. Yeah, they're obviously going to able to move away if you do that. Fucking cops, can't even do police brutality right.
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Dsarker

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1388 on: November 10, 2011, 05:53:50 am »

Exactly. Four or five machine guns nests on roofs, dum dum ammunition. That'll clear the crowds away.
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scriver

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1389 on: November 10, 2011, 06:03:49 am »

Well, it makes a hell of a lot of difference.

It's true that you see quite a few Conservatives out for Occupy - but let's be honest, I haven't seen or heard of any Tea Partiers joining up.
About that...

Yes, that is a founder of the Tea Party saying that he agrees with OWS.

Spoiler: You know you have to. (click to show/hide)

Somebody should make a version of that with Tea Partyers, OWS-ers and whatever else system-critical splinter groups you have over there. That'll get the patriotic spirit going.
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thobal

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1390 on: November 10, 2011, 07:49:22 am »

what other groups are there? I mean this seriously.
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Duuvian

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1391 on: November 10, 2011, 08:28:53 am »

I'm down for joining forces with the Tea Party's supporters as a supporter of OWS. The problem will be the things the two groups don't agree with each other becoming focal points, since I'd assume that's where at least some of the interested money would be focused upon if money were being spent. The obvious solution is to trumpet the similarities between the two. I wonder what would happen at a joint OWS/Tea Party camp?

EDIT1: Also I should note that I still think the President is doing a decent job, though certain things could definitely be better, such as just recently perhaps giving a bit of discipline to whoever decided that listening to a certain kind of music makes you a member of a criminal gang. Remember all that history about jazz music?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fbi-classifies-juggalos-gang-201339557.html

Kind of silly if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathic_Records

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Hehe, this is how they describe juggalos: However, FBI specialists note that it can be hard to get a fix on the Juggalos and their whereabouts.  Juggalos' "disorganization and lack of structure within their groups, coupled with their transient nature, makes it difficult to classify them and identify their members and migration patterns."

Basically a juggalo is someone who has heard songs by Psychopathic Records and had the audacity to enjoy them.

EDIT3: Stop potential oppression I guess Also I looked into that and it could be a bit more detailed and better worded and also I don't know exactly what effect this petition will have. I would have added something about sharing an interest in a certain type of music doesn't make one a part of a gang that also listens to that music so as to cover everyone in addition to juggalos, but whatever, I suppose this one fits the circumstances.

Here is something to read before you sign the petition though: If you sign a petition, please be advised that, even if you uncheck the box “Display my signature publicly”, your Personal Information may be delivered to the intended recipient of such campaign either electronically or in writing; the Company does not in any manner monitor or attempt to verify the intended recipients of any campaign and disclaims all liability regarding the accuracy of the intended recipient(s) of all campaigns. Please note further that if you choose to display your signature publicly when you sign a petition, you are also consenting to the disclosure of your name, city and state to the creator of the campaign.

I didn't sign it after all, but I support the idea. Maybe if it seemed more official I'd sign it but this just seems like an easy way to collect people's info.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 09:47:11 am by Duuvian »
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mainiac

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1392 on: November 10, 2011, 09:05:09 am »

I wonder what would happen at a joint OWS/Tea Party camp?

Mayhem.
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sluissa

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1393 on: November 10, 2011, 09:17:21 am »

I may not like the tea party as a whole, but I've met enough of them to know that a lot of them are generally pretty reasonable people.

Perhaps a bit kitsch and at the risk of maybe even sounding a bit condescending, but OWS groups that are up to it might offer an actual tea service around 4 or 5 pm and invite the local tea partiers to it. Hot or cold tea (depending upon weather and regional preference) and snacks.

I think some people might find it inviting. Although I really don't know enough about the party membership as a whole to know for sure. I do think a lot of them just hate the current established options and are scrambling for almost anything else to grab onto, with the Tea party being the most visible and potentially most effective option. In practice, not so, but people would rather grab onto a facade hiding a monster rather than the monster than doesn't bother to hide itself at all.

In any case, as it gets colder, hot tea is probably a good idea anyway.

I really don't think there would be mayhem, although as was said in the comments to that article, different groups around the country have different sorts of membership. This just happens to be an anger that crosses some lines that aren't traditionally crossed.

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Criptfeind

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #1394 on: November 10, 2011, 10:02:36 am »

I think that if they tried to meet up it would not go so well once they realized they want opposite things.
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