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[palsch]

This is the group in Arizona.

Just browsing around, they seem to be both against the federal government and assume it has failed at defending the border, calling for the national guard to be deployed in full force. Generally strongly anti-immigrant and anti-drug (lots of 'narco-terrorist' references). They also seem strongly tied into the general militia movement. They seem to be a more focused and possibly more visible than most such grounds because their militia actions are more acceptable, against illegal immigrants and drug runners.

One interesting bit was them trying to secure .50 caliber machine guns and a Main Battle Tank to help with their patrols. Elsewhere they are asking advice about an unidentified aircraft, saying not to try to shoot it down, yet.

They come across as well equipped, somewhat well trained (from what little I can tell) and definitely conducting paramilitary operations along the Arizona border with what looks like tacit police permission.

[Truean]

Let us hope cooler heads prevail and that we have not failed as Alan Dershowitz hoped we would not:

"The defense attorney, reviled though he is, must restrain the police. He is all that does."

Yeah, I really don't want to see any protesters with guns at this point.  That could spark a real violent conflict, which would shut this whole thing down pretty quickly.

All it would take is one idiot too make the whole cause look like the tea party...

I'm afraid of far more than looks unfortunately. Marines are trained to fight to the point they make police look like nothing, which comparatively they are. Let's hope they don't fight.

[SalmonGod]

palsch, you make them sound like something straight out of Machete.

[Loud Whispers]

Lets hope the police don't do anything stupid.

Oh wait;/

[KaelGotDwarves]

Oakland mayor backs down and reduces police presence, however doesn't apologise or take action for Marine in critical condition and coma after being hit in the head by police gas canister.

[Truean]

Oakland mayor backs down and reduces police presence, however doesn't apologise or take action for Marine in critical condition and coma after being hit in the head by police gas canister.

No apology for legal reasons. It could be construed as a party admission in an injury lawsuit, or, though I truly hope not, wrongful death. That is however, the smartest thing they've done lately. Thank God.

[SalmonGod]

Mainstream news is now comparing Occupy to the Bonus Army.

[palsch]

Couple more bits from London I had meant to post earlier.

St Paul's to reopen tomorrow. Well, eight hours from now.

Still a bit late for Dr Fraser who stepped down. Still, he gets a nice profile in the Guardian. Really shows why his resignation is a shame;

His family background is Jewish, and he was a teenage Trotskyite before converting to Anglicanism at university. His doctorate comes from a thesis on the 19th-century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche who famously declared that God – at least in the old-fashioned sense – was dead.

Fraser, served his curacy on a rundown Midlands council housing estate and for 10 years was vicar of Putney parish church in one of the most well-heeled parts of London. He equally valued the church as the scene of the post-civil war debates on the sort of society England should become.

He has never made any secret of his generally, leftwing, progressive views both politically and within the Church of England, where he has been a prominent supporter of the pro-gay Inclusive Church group, launched at a service in his church.

Meanwhile, fuel for the fire.

Pay for the directors of the UK's top businesses rose 50% over the past year, a pay research company has claimed.

Incomes Data Services (IDS) said this took the average pay for a director of a FTSE 100 company to just short of £2.7m.

Base salaries rose by just 3.2%, although that was above the median rise recorded by IDS this week for average pay settlements of 2.6% for private sector workers.

The latest consumer price inflation figures showed inflation at 5.2%.

Directors' bonus payments, on average, rose by 23% from £737,000 in 2010 to £906,000 this year.

Ironically, when I went to get the full data set they are asking £460 for the report.

[SalmonGod]

Happy to see this quote from here

Michael Patterson - a 21 year-old Army veteran from Anchorage, Alaska - argued that the police's implicit countenance of an unjust system put them on the wrong side of an ongoing struggle. Patterson, who served in Iraq in 2008, said he faced a "moral conundrum" six months after he returned to the states.

"I started realising I hurt people. Not terrorists, not insurgents. People," he said.

"The saying I keep hearing is that police are just doing their jobs," Patterson said, "If you're doing a job but you're supporting a corrupt system, you're still doing the wrong f***ing thing."

[SalmonGod]

Mayor Jean Quan has released an official video statement on her facebook page addressing the protesters.  She tried to attend their general assembly to speak with them directly.  She even attended alone, with no protection.  I thought that was rather brave and a strong display of good faith after what happened.  She got chased away.  I understand the occupiers in Oakland are angry, but they really need to show as much maturity as possible right now.

Story here
Video link here


And this is fucking spot on

[timotheus]

Can anyone point me to info on the occupy aspect that focuses on the "Corporations shouldn't have the same rights as people"? I know this is one point of the argument, but I'll be damned if I can find what they are talking about specifically. And I want to understand.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The Supreme Court has ruled that Corporations are considered fictional people under the 14th Amendment, and as such have the same rights as an actual person does.

This is not a good thing, as rights convey a lot of power that individuals need to avoid oppression, but corporations will use abusively.

[timotheus]

The Supreme Court has ruled that Corporations are considered fictional people under the 14th Amendment, and as such have the same rights as an actual person does.

This is not a good thing, as rights convey a lot of power that individuals need to avoid oppression, but corporations will use abusively.

Thanks for the response. I am aware of the ruling, but I don't understand how corporations can use it abusively. Is it in regards to bankruptcy law, something along those lines?

[SalmonGod]

The major thing I've heard is that a corporation as an entity is granted all the rights of a regular person, but cannot be held accountable for crimes the same way a person is due to actual blame being distributed between shareholders and executives who are very rarely directly and solely responsible for any wrongdoing.  So they enjoy all the legal benefits of personhood, but none of the downsides.  Plus, corporations have more resources at their disposal than individual people, which makes for an incredibly unfair imbalance whenever there are legal disputes between the two.

[timotheus]

@SalmonGod Thanks, that helps!

That is curious though, and I guess it is a good subject of a new post... Because, if that is taken away, how would a corporation be dealt with legally? Yes, definitely a topic for another post, heh. Thanks!