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[Heliman]

Note that this guy is not an occupier, and claims he used to be only mildly sympathetic to the movement.

As I walked away and got into my car, I left as a full fledged Occupier.

emphasis added

Wow how in the hell did I miss that? I must be getting sleepy.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Another short clip I can't watch

....Am I looking at that wrong, or did the cops just shoot someone in cold blood at the end of that clip? Because that's what the bang sounded like.

[SalmonGod]

Holy shit, Oakland Police. That's a serious counterpoint to The Albany Police Department's disobedience to the orders that would have had them remove the protesters there.

I noticed this same contrast.  It's pretty interesting.  Totally opposite events on totally opposite sides of the country.

From what I hear, each of the 20 or so Occupy groups in Washington is selecting a representative (such as myself) to meet up sometime. Well, maybe not Occupy Seattle, we haven't heard from them yet. This should be pretty exciting, I imagine. I'll have to find some way to get myself to the meetings. 

(If there are any. I'm not sure if this is going through yet.)

What I read is they plan to gather delegates from every major occupation around the country and have a convention, where they will try to agree on what kind of changes they want to work towards and how.  There was also something about collectively writing a document to hand to the president.

[Heron TSG]

I believe that's a flashbang, MSH.

From what I hear, each of the 20 or so Occupy groups in Washington is selecting a representative (such as myself) to meet up sometime. Well, maybe not Occupy Seattle, we haven't heard from them yet. This should be pretty exciting, I imagine. I'll have to find some way to get myself to the meetings. 

(If there are any. I'm not sure if this is going through yet.)

What I read is they plan to gather delegates from every major occupation around the country and have a convention, where they will try to agree on what kind of changes they want to work towards and how.  There was also something about collectively writing a document to hand to the president.

I think this might have been a movement for an in-state type thing. I don't think my town of 5,000 people qualifies as a major occupation.

[SalmonGod]

Here's one example from tonight of how nasty that "non-lethal" ammunition can be...

[Dsarker]

What do you mean? Clearly the police didn't do that, it was one of those nasty rioter types. They'll kill you as soon as look at you. Obviously the police need access to lethal ammunition.

[SalmonGod]

Oakland's mayor has a statement up on her Facebook page about the crackdown, calling this a "generally peaceful" resolution.  1800+ comments in 15 hours and counting.  Haven't seen a single one that wasn't calling for shame.

That's a ton of tear gas... and they really love throwing those fireworks at people, too.  It doesn't even look like there's anywhere to go to get away from it.  Gas everywhere.

[Lagslayer]

If the protesters were doing what the police claimed, then it needed to be broken up. Trashing the place, making threats to bystanding businesses, and then throwing M80s at the police is not a safe, legal, or smart thing to do.

This does assume that the police report was true.




Also, I found it hilarious when I learned about the drum circles forming within some of the protest groups.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That is at least a skull fracture, probably also gave him a concussion. Hopefully he'll go the hospital and not home to get some sleep.

[Nadaka]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That is at least a skull fracture, probably also gave him a concussion. Hopefully he'll go the hospital and not home to get some sleep.

Police are not allowed to shoot people in the head with less lethal weapons (except pepper spray and mace) because that makes them significantly less less lethal.

Edit: let me rephrase that, doing that violates the manufacturers and police instructors firm rules for use of less lethal weapons.

[SalmonGod]

This is a fun one too.  They're just throwing fireworks right under people's feet.

Trashing the place, making threats to bystanding businesses, and then throwing M80s at the police is not a safe, legal, or smart thing to do.

I think that will just come down to who you want to believe, Lagslayer.  I've seen no evidence that the protesters were doing much harm.  I can tell you for sure from the before and after photos that the police trashed the place much more than the protesters.  I noticed in some of the photos of the camp pre-raid that they'd even set up makeshift sidewalks out of shipping pallets to minimize trampling damage to the park lawn.  I've heard nothing about threats to nearby businesses, but I have seen comments popping up everywhere from Oakland residents about how they had witnessed nothing from the occupiers to justify this.  Haven't heard about throwing M80's, either, but after the videos I've seen tonight of people dancing in the streets because multiple M800s and M1000s are being thrown at their feet by police, I can't help but laugh at the relevance of the claim.

[Lagslayer]

Police don't throw firecrackers. If anything they throw flashbangs. Why would they use firecrackers when flashbangs do a better job?

And yes, my personal bias comes into play. But this could be said of everyone (not that you were necessarily singling me out, but just to clarify).

[SalmonGod]

Police don't throw firecrackers. If anything they throw flashbangs. Why would they use firecrackers when flashbangs do a better job?

I read tonight that they mostly use high caliber firecrackers, because they achieve the same light and sound effect without the concussive force.  Didn't come from an authoritative source, but it makes sense... and I would expect flashbangs to be more powerful than what I'm seeing in these videos.

Just for reference, I'm assuming this is a real flashbang.


Police have claimed they aren't using rubber bullets.  Supposed proof that they're lying.


Watch the last 20 seconds of this.  Girl gets knocked unconscious by the initial barrage of exploding gas canisters.  About a dozen people from the fleeing crowd turn around to help her.  The line of cops serve and protect by standing there watching, and one throws another exploding canister right next to her unconscious body.  Classy.

My opinion of cops has actually been changing recently, since I've seen mostly good behavior from them across the country and even some motions of sympathy for the movement.  I've been told for years that the bad ones are the minority, and only the bad stories get spread around.  The police at occupy indy have been great by all accounts, and it's actually been swaying me.  They're all tools of the state by definition, but I've really been trying to internalize the notion that this doesn't mean they're ill-intentioned.

But now I'm watching this and wondering... where are the good ones in Oakland right now?... How can so many just stand there and watch people get seriously injured and do nothing?... or even continue to attack someone completely defenseless?

[KaelGotDwarves]

Ones not willing to toe the hard Oakland PD line got fired.

Seriously.

They recently cut Oakland's PD by a good 100+. But honestly, those guys have to deal with bad shit. I don't envy their jobs.

I'm pretty sure a classmate of mine got arrested/detained. He's an organiser for Occupy Oakland.

[Lagslayer]

Hmm. That didn't look like a flashbang at the end of that video. It wasn't all that bright and it looked and sounded like two explosions close together. Possibly some misthrown firecrackers? Either way, I couldn't see what was going on all that well through the smoke, but it looked like someone or something was on the ground in that general area.

I'm skeptical of that rubber bullet picture (naturally) because there are no videos or pictures of the cops using guns that I could find, and civilians are allowed to have them.

Also, doesn't Oakland have this rap of being a pretty violent place in general? Not sure how much of it is from unfounded or just plain popular rumors, though.