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[Nadaka]

I don't know what to say about Oakland...

It isn't good for my health.

God damn jack booted thugs shitting on my constitution should be shot.

See? I shouldn't have said that.

[RedKing]

Y'know, all this "long-term camping" over economic grievances and armed police actions against them has been tickling the back of my brain for a while, going "this is familiar...why do I feel like I've heard this before?"

It just hit me: The Bonus Army.

[SalmonGod]

Y'know, all this "long-term camping" over economic grievances and armed police actions against them has been tickling the back of my brain for a while, going "this is familiar...why do I feel like I've heard this before?"

It just hit me: The Bonus Army.

A lot of people criticize the movement for not moving everything to DC.  The Bonus Army is the prime example of why that would be a bad idea.

It was too ambitious for its size.  Combat veterans camping on the doorstep of the nation's central leadership figures acting very threatening.  If they didn't get their demands, they were going to take action to disastrous effect.  They tried to force change by immediate threat against a power much greater than them.  It could have worked if they hadn't given their opponent plenty of time and reason to pre-emptively respond with superior force.

And the same thing would happen today.  If the whole movement gathered together under clear leadership, in a location where they could directly damage the existing power structure, they would be shut down very quickly.  Bayonet charges are rather out of style, but there would be some massive show of force.  Core believers would be subdued, fence-sitters would be deterred, and everyone else would never even have the chance to care.  The powers that be know very well how to deal with an immediate and forceful threat.  They don't know how to deal with people scattered all over the world peacefully grumbling in unison and gathering more grumblers by the day.  There will be violence eventually, because that's the only method of self-preservation that power knows, and it will strive to preserve itself.  It's our job right now to stall that inevitability for as long as possible.  We don't want it to happen at all, but when it does, it should be like the panicked, aimless fit of a cornered animal.


Edit:

A little more background info on the Oakland raid which began somewhere around 4:30-5:00 am this morning.

[Truean]

They can't do that under the First Amendment, and they have to know it. Truean, how far are you from Oakland? I think you've got a few hundred clients in the making.

Unfortunately I'm not licensed to practice law in California.... Hopefully I will soon be licensed to practice in Indiana though. Stupid reciprocity rules....

But yeah, Bush really did screw up the first amendment and so you'd be looking at a massive lawsuit to undo that. Sadly Obama allows this to continue.... Rather he hasn't done jack about it. Sadly the courts haven't intervened really either.

Though really, one of the major problems you WILL run into is when you stay for an indefinite period of time. You're essentially taking over the entire park and no one else can use it for anything.... <-- Huge problem for the future really. This isn't sustainable and something sustainable has to come of this for it to mean much....

[sluissa]

I actually passed by the occupy location in my city today. I honestly hadn't realized it was there. It was announced that it was in "_____ Park" that I'd never heard of.(Of course, I don't know if any of the parks in the city have official names, I just know them by relative location.) However I never realized that the median of two one way streets in the city that happens to have a couple of benches on it counts as a "park" (It's narrow enough that the protesters are only able to have two tents side by side set up there without encroaching onto the sidewalk. Although it's probably a quarter mile or so long.) Apparently they have a permit for the rest of the week. They're giving them out week by week and occasionally asking them to leave(which they apparently are doing) when they have some other event planned. No hostilities so far, from what I've heard, which is, honestly, quite surprising given the area I'm from.

[mainiac]

A lot of people criticize the movement for not moving everything to DC.  The Bonus Army is the prime example of why that would be a bad idea.

On the contrary, I think the bonus army was a huge success.  The publicity from the attack on their camp was a huge boon to their cause and was instrumental in them eventually getting favorable legislation.  Protestors don't fight "the system" with sticks and stones.  They fight a PR war.

[SalmonGod]

Apparently four children were taken into custody from their parents during the raid on Oakland this morning, and authorities refuse to give their parents information about the children's whereabouts or well-being.

[Vector]

Apparently four children were taken into custody from their parents during the raid on Oakland this morning, and authorities refuse to give their parents information about the children's whereabouts or well-being.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

[Aqizzar]

Okay, so, uh...

I kinda sorta signed up to go to a MoveOn hosted meeting tonight, curious to see what was going on.  I was neither aware of nor surprised to hear that there's apparently bad blood between OccupyDallas and MoveOn, because all the OccupyLocals think MoveOn is trying to take them over or something.  Because when two groups agree with each other on 95% of issues, and one of them has a larger media presence, that means it's trying to co-opt everything that sounds like it.  Okay, whatever, not my concern.

Without really intending to, and by virtue of being the person most willing to write stuff down and talk occasionally... I'm now in charge of preparing, organizing, and hosting a Move Your Money public event for November 5.  How the heck did that happen?

Also, at 24, I was the youngest person there by at least five or ten years, and way below the average age.  Where are all the hippie chicks I was promised?

[SalmonGod]

The guy on Google+ who posted this link claims that these are not the rubber bullet variety of shotgun... can anyone verify this?  Either way, it seems like the Oakland PD are surrounding protesters who have reconvened in another location and preparing for another aggressive action.

Without really intending to, and by virtue of being the person most willing to write stuff down and talk occasionally... I'm now in charge of preparing, organizing, and hosting a Move Your Money public event for November 5.  How the heck did that happen?

Wow!  You feeling up to it?  I would have no idea what organizing something like that would entail.

As for the bad blood between the two groups, I was on MoveOn's mailing list for a couple years after 9/11.  I eventually got annoyed with them and got myself removed, because they were too dogmatic, sensationalist, and felt more and more over time like an extension of the democrat party.  Recently, I've started getting e-mails from them again.  I think I forget to uncheck something when I signed a petition or something :/    If any organization is equipped to coopt the Occupy movement, it would be MoveOn.  They have that grassroots feel, but have become deeply embedded in standard party politics and all their talk is very party line democrat.  At least, that's my impression of them.  I think it's great that they support OWS, but I feel it necessary to keep them at arm's length at the same time.

[Nadaka]

The guy on Google+ who posted this link claims that these are not the rubber bullet variety of shotgun... can anyone verify this?  Either way, it seems like the Oakland PD are surrounding protesters who have reconvened in another location and preparing for another aggressive action.

Less than lethal weapons are supposed to be clearly identifiable and never dual use. Some are painted green, others with yellow stripes. This is to make sure that you are using the level of force you intend to. I don't know if Oakland has the budget to provide 500+ dedicated non lethal shotguns or not.

And bean bag shells are not brass and red like the ones on that shotgun.


Edit: added stuff, removed reference to new york

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Those cops had a whole bunch of zip-lock cuffs each.

This isn't going to end well.

Apparently four children were taken into custody from their parents during the raid on Oakland this morning, and authorities refuse to give their parents information about the children's whereabouts or well-being.

This really isn't going to end well.

The guy on Google+ who posted this link claims that these are not the rubber bullet variety of shotgun... can anyone verify this?  Either way, it seems like the Oakland PD are surrounding protesters who have reconvened in another location and preparing for another aggressive action.

Less than lethal weapons are supposed to be clearly identifiable. Some are painted green, others with yellow stripes. New York has the budget that they shouldn't have to half arse it.

And bean bag shells are not brass and red like the ones on that shotgun.

This really, really, really, really isn't going to end well.

[SalmonGod]

This really, really, really, really isn't going to end well.

Damn... I hope everyone keeps their cool over there in Oakland... Even before the Occupy movement began, I've been noticing some extreme and violent police corruption in that area, ever since the Oscar Grant shooting.  The more I look at all the factors here, the more I get a similarly ominous feeling.

[Bauglir]

I'd say none of those things bode well, but... they're bad, in and of themselves. They don't need to signal worse things to come to be nasty.

[SalmonGod]

Wall St is having a rally in support of Occupy Oakland.  Crowd is estimated over 30,000.