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[mainiac]

So I'd like to rephrase: If everyone would just change their signs to "we are the 100%", it'd make sense to me.

But that would not make sense.  The people who are to blame the most came out smelling like roses.  They aren't having their lives fucked up while a great number of people who are basically blameless are.

What Siquo believes (I believe, so most certainly tell me how wrong I am) is that the people on top did not orchestrate a conspiracy to do this, but come out on top by accident/luck. It was everyone who made the world as it is today who is to blame.

And we most strongly disagree.  Those at the top had a much, much larger role and quite a few of us at the bottom actually tried to fight this.

[Dsarker]

So I'd like to rephrase: If everyone would just change their signs to "we are the 100%", it'd make sense to me.

But that would not make sense.  The people who are to blame the most came out smelling like roses.  They aren't having their lives fucked up while a great number of people who are basically blameless are.

What Siquo believes (I believe, so most certainly tell me how wrong I am) is that the people on top did not orchestrate a conspiracy to do this, but come out on top by accident/luck. It was everyone who made the world as it is today who is to blame.

And we most strongly disagree.  Those at the top had a much, much larger role and quite a few of us at the bottom actually tried to fight this.

And his point is that we all should have tried to fight it and we then would have won.

[mainiac]

Let's suppose that a mugger shoots somebody and steals the victims wallet.

The mugger acquired a gun, used it with intent to harm and profited from this situation.
The victim failed to protect themself.

By the moral standard outlined, both parties are equally to blame so the victim and the victims family have no reason to be bitching.

[Vector]

I can see that we're going to get into the usual "responsibilities for rape" argument.

[Chaoswizkid]

Am I correct in saying that what happens in this Big Box Mart parody video is sort of what you're thinking, Siquo? As in, if the consumers didn't purchase goods from the shopping center, it wouldn't have ended as bad for them?

[Dsarker]

Let's suppose that a mugger shoots somebody and steals the victims wallet.

The mugger acquired a gun, used it with intent to harm and profited from this situation.
The victim failed to protect themself.

By the moral standard outlined, both parties are equally to blame so the victim and the victims family have no reason to be bitching.

Which is the problem with his ideas. Either the mugger used the gun accidentally and profited anyway, and maybe both should have done it better. In which case he is right.

But if the mugger uses the gun deliberately, there is no 'real' way to tell, and guess what the mugger wants you to think...

Edit: In the 'accidental' usage, I'm assuming that the muggee has decided to try and punch the mugger or the mugger's gun has misfired.

[ECrownofFire]

I can see that we're going to get into the usual "responsibilities for rape" argument.

Let's just take a 180 here and stay far, far, FAR away from this.

Also, it's more comparable to a person selling their only gun to a person they know is a criminal

[Dsarker]

I can see that we're going to get into the usual "responsibilities for rape" argument.

Let's just take a 180 here and stay far, far, FAR away from this.

Also, it's more comparable to a person selling their only gun to a person they know is a criminal

That's a much better metaphor.

[mainiac]

I can see that we're going to get into the usual "responsibilities for rape" argument.

Let's just take a 180 here and stay far, far, FAR away from this.

Also, it's more comparable to a person selling their only gun to a person they know is a criminal

No it's really not.  The vast majority of people had no knowledge of the fact that this was brewing.  The information was either secret or far too complex for an outsider to decipher in real time.

I never sold shit to nobody.  I certainly didn't profit from any sale.  The closest to your metaphor I could be is the victim of a con man.

[Dsarker]

We've chucked our gun away because we don't like weapons.

Siquo's idea - the gun hit the ground and went off, hitting us. Someone came by and decided to take our wallet.


Others' idea - the gun hit the ground, and this stranger picked it up and shot them, then took the wallet.

[ECrownofFire]

I can see that we're going to get into the usual "responsibilities for rape" argument.

Let's just take a 180 here and stay far, far, FAR away from this.

Also, it's more comparable to a person selling their only gun to a person they know is a criminal

No it's really not.  The vast majority of people had no knowledge of the fact that this was brewing.  The information was either secret or far too complex for an outsider to decipher in real time.

I never sold shit to nobody.  I certainly didn't profit from any sale.  The closest to your metaphor I could be is the victim of a con man.

Is it REALLY that difficult to see "hey, those people are making money"?

You profited by gaining a company that sells what you need.

[SalmonGod]

I can see that we're going to get into the usual "responsibilities for rape" argument.

Let's just take a 180 here and stay far, far, FAR away from this.

Also, it's more comparable to a person selling their only gun to a person they know is a criminal

I never sold shit to nobody.  I certainly didn't profit from any sale.  The closest to your metaphor I could be is the victim of a con man.

But you worked in the factory that made the gun, and accepted a fraction of the value of your work as pay, so that the gun salesman would have plenty of money left over to pay for whatever was necessary to cover up his questionable business ethics and any inevitable outcome of them (which was likely you getting shot for your wallet on the way home from the factory).

I'm not going to be told now that everything is my fault for not waking up sooner, and I'm sure as hell not going to be discouraged from taking action now over the observation that it took too long to get something started (and it did).

Well, that's more at "the world in general". I refer you to one of my previous signatures (I had it for years here): "I want to fight the fight, but I don't know who is right."

Also, I'm doubtful that came from me.  Doesn't sound quite like something I'd say, and I've only been hanging around here for just over a year.

[mainiac]

I can see that we're going to get into the usual "responsibilities for rape" argument.

Let's just take a 180 here and stay far, far, FAR away from this.

Also, it's more comparable to a person selling their only gun to a person they know is a criminal

I never sold shit to nobody.  I certainly didn't profit from any sale.  The closest to your metaphor I could be is the victim of a con man.

But you worked in the factory that made the gun, and accepted a fraction of the value of your work as pay, so that the gun salesman would have plenty of money left over to pay for whatever was necessary to cover up his questionable business ethics and any inevitable outcome of them (which was likely you getting shot for your wallet on the way home from the factory).

A ridiculous metaphor to try to give me an active role in something that I had no active role in.  You are framing the chaos butterfly for murder.

[ECrownofFire]

These metaphors are getting out of hand.

You sell a gun to a guy and get some money, he shoots you in the foot and takes your wallet. End of story.

[Willfor]

There is an easy solution to metaphors getting out of hand.

Stop using them instead of telling people that their metaphors are getting out of hand.