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[Vector]

Poor people have little choice but to pass their poverty on to their children, by which I mean that there isn't some money that they can choose or not choose to transfer at will.  There are, of course, often things that can be done to help children get footholds.

But I still think it's ridiculous to give anyone that sort of money.  Education (i.e. buying the kid's way into Harvard), insurance, networking, teaching a child all those little signs of being upper-class--that's way more than enough.  It's social currency.  But it just seems absurd to hand them a lump sum and say "Here you go!  You're set forever.  There's no reason for you to ever do anything with your life, but everything you do will be funded."

Basically, I'm with Carnegie when it comes to this stuff.

[Truean]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

By the way, if want to furrow your brow for a few minutes - We Are The 53% - because you can always convince one half of the poor to fight the other half.

Well, at least they're standing up for what (they believe) is right. No one can fault them for that.

The Hell I can't.  The name itself is part of the problem.  53% percent refers to some (relatively) specious numbers about how many Americans actually pay income taxes.  The response to the "Occupy" guys (and essentially the entire realm of progressive-taxation) that's gaining popularity is pointing to the fact that so many people don't pay any income taxes.  The problem they say, is that the top 3% of income earners make up about 50% of federal tax revenue.  The problem isn't that 400 people have as much combined net worth as the bottom 150 million (which helps explain that federal-revenue disparity), but that those 150 million aren't paying their fair share.

Of course, this completely ignores that most of that 47% are people who have no income and never would (prisoners, the disabled, work-age minors, the early-retired, stay at home parents), people actively looking for jobs and not finding any (officially 9.1%), and people who do have jobs, but make so little money they either don't qualify for the lowest income bracket or qualify for enough tax credits that they wind up owing nothing (including about 1470 millionaires).  Never mind that they still pay Medicare and Social Security taxes, state income taxes, property and sales taxes, and government fees.

Charitably, it's a belief that the real problem in the American tax structure is that we aren't trying hard enough to squeeze blood from a stone.  My opinion, is that they're the same old know-nothings who believe working their asses off for no recognition or proper reward or basic civil entitlements is the "honorable" way of life, and anyone who doesn't is as good as criminal, and have no real concept of how an economy works and can't fathom why 9+% of the population can't find a job like they did.

And people like its founder.  It started with this guy Steve Doocy, who made that Tumblr (I believe his picture is still at the first entry), wherein he says he has "three jobs" and complains about housing prices and such.  His three "jobs" are a blog, a radio show, and being a Fox commentator, which you can imagine pays pretty well.

Just wanted to give nod....

Basically, I'm with Carnegie when it comes to this stuff.

Yeah, there's a reason so many libraries are named after him, among other institutions.

[Bauglir]

I... kinda stopped reading when one of the 53% suggested that <50k was a really low income. Dude, I'm making 27k and my response to that is "Holy shit I am rolling in cash" because I have never had access to this much money in my life. If 50k is your benchmark, you damn well better be living in NYC or somewhere where the cost of living is equally ridiculous, and/or be supporting a family singlehandedly.

Kind of reeks of somebody saying that because they once got through an entire day's work on just a cookie and some water, starving kids don't have it so bad and ought to stop complaining.

Perhaps I shouldn't judge the entire thing by one or two posts, but I also get a strong vibe of "This is being staged, and the rhetoric is poorly thought out."

[Aqizzar]

I... kinda stopped reading when one of the 53% suggested that <50k was a really low income. Dude, I'm making 27k and my response to that is "Holy shit I am rolling in cash" because I have never had access to this much money in my life.

I'll never forget back in 2006, I had a college course with like 200 people.  The professor asked everyone to rate their combined household income (or best guess at) on the "social stratum" chart, and where they thought they fell in the percentiles.  It was gobsmacking how many trust-funders from $100k and $200k households thought they were "middle class".  And how many people from such families were going to an abysmal state college for that matter.

[Vector]

It kind of depends when you started making that kind of money, though.

If you were in the severe poverty line and then got some kind of break late in life, it's very different from being in that sort of situation for most of your working years.  Depends on where you live, also.

[Bauglir]

Granted, that is true. If the author lives somewhere where the cost of living is extreme, or was deep in debt before hitting that pay rate, it might not be that great - I know my mother makes about that much, but has collected a lot of debt in the course of raising 3 kids by herself when she didn't make anything like that much, so some months get really rough. I admit, I'm assuming there's a level of blindness that might not exist, based on what I think of the rest of the people involved there. There's no mention of any circumstances making the author's life harder in that one, so I'm left to fill in what I really think.

Really, Aqizzar's already written up what are the fundamental problems with the entire concept - my post was a reaction to a particular participant. It could be flawed, but I stand by the impression I said I got, because it's still what I get out of it.

[Aqizzar]

Getting back to the title: Apparently the NYPD are preparing to kick everyone off of Zuccatti Park (the main Occupy location) tomorrow morning, just announced today, citing that the public space has become too messy with garbage.  So the protesters are planning to make a broom-wielding human wall (and clean the place up), and the AFL-CIO sent out a mass email to all of its members asking anyone who could possibly show up to be there.  Other unions are following suit.

Something much like that is happening in Dallas, where the city demanding an insurance bond put up for the Occupy assembly permit, and a court injunction got it moved back to tomorrow morning.  Apparently the city court will be making a decision then.  I'll head down myself to see what's up, and I'll try to bring a camera.

[Vester]

Getting back to the title: Apparently the NYPD are preparing to kick everyone off of Zuccatti Park (the main Occupy location) tomorrow morning, just announced today, citing that the public space has become too messy with garbage.  So the protesters are planning to make a broom-wielding human wall (and clean the place up), and the AFL-CIO sent out a mass email to all of its members asking anyone who could possibly show up to be there.  Other unions are following suit.

They used to do the same thing to Roma camps, if I remember. Although that's kind of a different thing, and maybe they did have better reasons (for example, gambling permits).

[Heron TSG]

Great job, Truean! You're the only lawyer I know who moonlights as a superhero.

For those of you interested in preventing the Zuccatti eviction, here's a petition. They're aiming for 250,000 signatures by 7AM tomorrow when the police show up, and right now it's at ~93% of that. I don't know if that'll actually help matters, but it'll be a PR shitstorm if the police just go and do it anyway.

[Vector]

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.

[Nadaka]

I am trying to find a local occupy rally that I can contribute to on weekends. I cant seem to find one. I'm in NW Florida and can travel to New Orleans occasionally.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Signed.

[SalmonGod]

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.

85%

[Vector]

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.

85%

Oh, you're right.  That was my error, sorry.

[SalmonGod]

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.

85%

Oh, you're right.  That was my error, sorry.

No, it's probably just growing that fast.