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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 294779 times)

Vector

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #360 on: October 13, 2011, 08:06:39 pm »

Poor people have little choice but to pass their poverty on to their children, by which I mean that there isn't some money that they can choose or not choose to transfer at will.  There are, of course, often things that can be done to help children get footholds.

But I still think it's ridiculous to give anyone that sort of money.  Education (i.e. buying the kid's way into Harvard), insurance, networking, teaching a child all those little signs of being upper-class--that's way more than enough.  It's social currency.  But it just seems absurd to hand them a lump sum and say "Here you go!  You're set forever.  There's no reason for you to ever do anything with your life, but everything you do will be funded."

Basically, I'm with Carnegie when it comes to this stuff.
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Truean

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #361 on: October 13, 2011, 08:07:13 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just wanted to give nod....

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Basically, I'm with Carnegie when it comes to this stuff.
Yeah, there's a reason so many libraries are named after him, among other institutions.
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Bauglir

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #362 on: October 13, 2011, 08:13:32 pm »

I... kinda stopped reading when one of the 53% suggested that <50k was a really low income. Dude, I'm making 27k and my response to that is "Holy shit I am rolling in cash" because I have never had access to this much money in my life. If 50k is your benchmark, you damn well better be living in NYC or somewhere where the cost of living is equally ridiculous, and/or be supporting a family singlehandedly.

Kind of reeks of somebody saying that because they once got through an entire day's work on just a cookie and some water, starving kids don't have it so bad and ought to stop complaining.

Perhaps I shouldn't judge the entire thing by one or two posts, but I also get a strong vibe of "This is being staged, and the rhetoric is poorly thought out."
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Aqizzar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #363 on: October 13, 2011, 08:17:46 pm »

I... kinda stopped reading when one of the 53% suggested that <50k was a really low income. Dude, I'm making 27k and my response to that is "Holy shit I am rolling in cash" because I have never had access to this much money in my life.

I'll never forget back in 2006, I had a college course with like 200 people.  The professor asked everyone to rate their combined household income (or best guess at) on the "social stratum" chart, and where they thought they fell in the percentiles.  It was gobsmacking how many trust-funders from $100k and $200k households thought they were "middle class".  And how many people from such families were going to an abysmal state college for that matter.
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Vector

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #364 on: October 13, 2011, 08:19:17 pm »

It kind of depends when you started making that kind of money, though.

If you were in the severe poverty line and then got some kind of break late in life, it's very different from being in that sort of situation for most of your working years.  Depends on where you live, also.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Bauglir

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #365 on: October 13, 2011, 08:27:35 pm »

Granted, that is true. If the author lives somewhere where the cost of living is extreme, or was deep in debt before hitting that pay rate, it might not be that great - I know my mother makes about that much, but has collected a lot of debt in the course of raising 3 kids by herself when she didn't make anything like that much, so some months get really rough. I admit, I'm assuming there's a level of blindness that might not exist, based on what I think of the rest of the people involved there. There's no mention of any circumstances making the author's life harder in that one, so I'm left to fill in what I really think.

Really, Aqizzar's already written up what are the fundamental problems with the entire concept - my post was a reaction to a particular participant. It could be flawed, but I stand by the impression I said I got, because it's still what I get out of it.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Aqizzar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #366 on: October 13, 2011, 08:45:03 pm »

Getting back to the title: Apparently the NYPD are preparing to kick everyone off of Zuccatti Park (the main Occupy location) tomorrow morning, just announced today, citing that the public space has become too messy with garbage.  So the protesters are planning to make a broom-wielding human wall (and clean the place up), and the AFL-CIO sent out a mass email to all of its members asking anyone who could possibly show up to be there.  Other unions are following suit.

Something much like that is happening in Dallas, where the city demanding an insurance bond put up for the Occupy assembly permit, and a court injunction got it moved back to tomorrow morning.  Apparently the city court will be making a decision then.  I'll head down myself to see what's up, and I'll try to bring a camera.
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Vester

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #367 on: October 13, 2011, 08:55:44 pm »

Getting back to the title: Apparently the NYPD are preparing to kick everyone off of Zuccatti Park (the main Occupy location) tomorrow morning, just announced today, citing that the public space has become too messy with garbage.  So the protesters are planning to make a broom-wielding human wall (and clean the place up), and the AFL-CIO sent out a mass email to all of its members asking anyone who could possibly show up to be there.  Other unions are following suit.

They used to do the same thing to Roma camps, if I remember. Although that's kind of a different thing, and maybe they did have better reasons (for example, gambling permits).
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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #368 on: October 13, 2011, 09:01:33 pm »

Great job, Truean! You're the only lawyer I know who moonlights as a superhero.

For those of you interested in preventing the Zuccatti eviction, here's a petition. They're aiming for 250,000 signatures by 7AM tomorrow when the police show up, and right now it's at ~93% of that. I don't know if that'll actually help matters, but it'll be a PR shitstorm if the police just go and do it anyway.
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Vector

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #369 on: October 13, 2011, 09:04:59 pm »

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Nadaka

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #370 on: October 13, 2011, 09:05:13 pm »

I am trying to find a local occupy rally that I can contribute to on weekends. I cant seem to find one. I'm in NW Florida and can travel to New Orleans occasionally.
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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #371 on: October 13, 2011, 09:05:19 pm »

Signed.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #372 on: October 13, 2011, 09:06:28 pm »

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.

85%
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Vector

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #373 on: October 13, 2011, 09:07:31 pm »

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.

85%

Oh, you're right.  That was my error, sorry.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #374 on: October 13, 2011, 09:08:12 pm »

Just upped the goal to 300,000 signatures; they're apparently at 80% of it already.

I just finished signing.

85%

Oh, you're right.  That was my error, sorry.

No, it's probably just growing that fast.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.
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