Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chaoswizkid]

[snip]

If I remember correctly, the Democratic candidates did not support those issues before the election. All of them promised to get the troops out as soon as possible, for example. It was only after the election we saw how relatively right-leaning Obama was, and then the headlines were full of "Even Democrats denounce Obama's actions", etc. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If he was like that before the election, I don't believe he would have been nominated.

[mainiac]

[snip]

If I remember correctly, the Democratic candidates did not support those issues before the election. All of them promised to get the troops out as soon as possible, for example. It was only after the election we saw how relatively right-leaning Obama was, and then the headlines were full of "Even Democrats denounce Obama's actions", etc. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If he was like that before the election, I don't believe he would have been nominated.

The only significant policy reversal he had was adopting the individual mandate.  Everything else was exactly what he was saying at the time, if you were listening.  He campaigned on that tax cut.  He was quite to the point about his foreign policy and is doing what he promised.  And healthcare reform was his centerpiece agenda.

So besides tax policy, foreign policy and economic policy, he didn't run on centrist ideas?

[Chaoswizkid]

[snip]

If I remember correctly, the Democratic candidates did not support those issues before the election. All of them promised to get the troops out as soon as possible, for example. It was only after the election we saw how relatively right-leaning Obama was, and then the headlines were full of "Even Democrats denounce Obama's actions", etc. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If he was like that before the election, I don't believe he would have been nominated.

The only significant policy reversal he had was adopting the individual mandate.  Everything else was exactly what he was saying at the time, if you were listening.  He campaigned on that tax cut.  He was quite to the point about his foreign policy and is doing what he promised.  And healthcare reform was his centerpiece agenda.

So besides tax policy, foreign policy and economic policy, he didn't run on centrist ideas?

Perhaps I'm wrong then. I don't recall every single thing he spoke for. I just remember watching quite a few videos of him campaigning and then speeches during his term that directly contradict his campaign promises (Of which the campaign promises were pretty liberal/focused on social policies and during the term they were less so). I also recall a lot of the Democratic party turning on Obama after he got elected. *shrug*

Democrats have been pretty weak on their traditional ideology thus far it seems, though. They seemed to be bullied around quite a bit during the financial fiasco last summer. Perhaps they are just leaning more to the right as a whole (or more willing to lean to the right)?

[Nadaka]

Reading the comments on that Mediaite blog about Beck was literally the worst experience in my entire life. Apperently they've got an organized circlejerk of Teabaggers who follow eachother around comments sections and upvote eachothers posts. Seriously.

I am also active on slashdot, and yes there are a group of dedicated and organized teabaggers with sockpuppet account that abuse moderation to promote their posts and suppress criticism.


edit: i can haz grammar?

[Vector]

Go, Poland, go!

Hurray~ <3

[RedKing]

[snip]

If I remember correctly, the Democratic candidates did not support those issues before the election. All of them promised to get the troops out as soon as possible, for example. It was only after the election we saw how relatively right-leaning Obama was, and then the headlines were full of "Even Democrats denounce Obama's actions", etc. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If he was like that before the election, I don't believe he would have been nominated.

No, Obama said he wanted to get troops out of Iraq, so that we could send them to Afghanistan. Which I believe is the right strategy and what we should have been doing since 2001. People were only pissed later because they had heard what they wanted to hear instead of what he was actually saying.

[sluissa]

[snip]

If I remember correctly, the Democratic candidates did not support those issues before the election. All of them promised to get the troops out as soon as possible, for example. It was only after the election we saw how relatively right-leaning Obama was, and then the headlines were full of "Even Democrats denounce Obama's actions", etc. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If he was like that before the election, I don't believe he would have been nominated.

No, Obama said he wanted to get troops out of Iraq, so that we could send them to Afghanistan. Which I believe is the right strategy and what we should have been doing since 2001. People were only pissed later because they had heard what they wanted to hear instead of what he was actually saying.

This is correct. Every speech, pre-election, I ever heard in relation to pulling troops out involved Iraq. Afghanistan was never mentioned except to occasionally and vaguely say that the focus should be there and on Osama Bin Laden instead. I can't say it was the right decision, but it was a step in the right direction at least.

Personally I think we've got a bit of a wallpaper bubble problem here. You push the bubble down in one place, it pops up in another, or maybe even splits up into several smaller bubbles. But that's a discussion for another thread.

I was a bit skeptical of OWS at first, but now that it's catching on. I'm actually somewhat excited to see where it will go. I'm still pessimistic, as I doubt it will cause any real change. But hey, watching cats swat at things is cuter than watching them sleep, even if they don't accomplish anything either way. I don't think the movement as a whole is committed enough to bring about real change. I think they'll take any little morsel of acknowledgement they can get(I'm going to guess some minor but nice sounding tax changes and maybe a raise in the minimum wage), declare a victory, and quiet down again for the most part.

Still, part of me hopes for more. I definitely want to see more. But these things... have a tendency to really just fizzle out at some point.

[ChairmanPoo]

Depends on how ugly things get.

Here (we've been having protests for the last 7-8 months) we are having 300 evictions a day. Worse, due to a ridiculous law that is in place here -and unlike in the US-, those evictions don't mean that the mortgage gets rescinded - you still have to pay the bank. So in practice, we have 300 people every day who are without a house, without a salary, and with the promise that the banks will own whatever they manage to earn in the future. Goes without saying that this is a recipe for deep social unrest.

[sluissa]

Depends on how ugly things get.

Here (we've been having protests for the last 7-8 months) we are having 300 evictions a day. Worse, due to a ridiculous law that is in place here -and unlike in the US-, those evictions don't mean that the mortgage gets rescinded - you still have to pay the bank. So in practice, we have 300 people every day who are without a house, without a salary, and with the promise that the banks will own whatever they manage to earn in the future. Goes without saying that this is a recipe for deep social unrest.

I do admit, I know less about the cultures of other countries than the US. I just know that this country has a habit of claiming this rebellious heritage while being ultimately too lazy to force any change ourselves. "Yeah... look at what we did... 235 years ago... we... sure showed that king back then. Watch it! We'll do it again too!... if we feel like it... oh, hey, American Idol is on!"

[ChairmanPoo]

I don't think the US is an exception. Sure, people might get distrcted by the old bread and circus tactics, just like every where else, but the thing is that there are people fallinrg out of the comfort zone en masse. Thats why I think it might escalqte. You cant go home and wqtch A,erican Idol if you hqve no homem

[Chaoswizkid]

Someone forwarded me some handy-dandy graphs that help explain why a lot of Americans have good reason to be upset: http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

[KaelGotDwarves]

[SalmonGod]

I'd like to know how much they enjoy their life, too.  I respect people with the determination to spend all of their time and energy working to be successful, but I also feel sorry for them.  I deeply resent the implicit notion that a person should have to sacrifice the first 25+ years of their life living like a relentless machine in order to qualify as having earned a living.  The way people talk these days, you basically have to survive on anti-depressants and speed in order to qualify as anything better than a lazy parasite.

[Bauglir]

I'm on my way to becoming that rant, and yeah. I'm actually in great shape financially - but I realize that I've been lucky. It's not just that I've worked hard (I haven't, compared to most) that's gotten me where I am. It's been a family that's been incredibly supportive of me (helping me out with paying for college, buying me a goddamn car, giving me a place to stay when I've got nowhere else), friends and teachers who've helped me learn what I needed to in order to do what work I have in the first place, and in the end I've just been lucky to be looking for a job at a place that was hiring at the time. Not everyone has had surroundings like that, and it's not fair of me to say to them, "Well, you should just work harder." It's bullshit to say that to someone who works 60 to 80 hour weeks just to keep themselves and their families sheltered and fed.

Very few people have the ability and the opportunity to be able to look at their lives, figure out what they want, and how to make the system work to give them that. People shouldn't be held accountable for choices they never got to make, if there's any way to avoid that injustice.

Preemptively, I know life isn't fair, you who were going to post that. Take a moment to think about why it isn't relevant.

[sneakey pete]

I don't get it... because he doesn't have cable, an iphone and only eats out a few times a month, you instantly assume he lives like a machine and has no life?