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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 294914 times)

Vector

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #270 on: October 09, 2011, 11:48:09 pm »

So I guess we should all just give up on improving our lives in all of their aspects?

Strawman.
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DJ

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #271 on: October 09, 2011, 11:50:29 pm »

Nope, reductio ad absurdum, which is a valid argument.
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Vector

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #272 on: October 10, 2011, 12:07:03 am »

Nope, reductio ad absurdum, which is a valid argument.

Very well: you're addressing the wrong statement.

The statement is, so far as I know, "Do not mistake this behavior for brutality," much as one would say "You may not have had a snack, but do not mistake your hunger for starvation."  And, from there, do not whine about how the world is falling down because you have not had your daily pickle.

Perspective, satiety, and contentment are, indeed, universally good.
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DJ

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #273 on: October 10, 2011, 12:09:14 am »

Wasn't the statement "you shouldn't eat when you're hungry because there are people who are starving"?
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Vester

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #274 on: October 10, 2011, 12:12:45 am »

Wasn't the statement "you shouldn't eat when you're hungry because there are people who are starving"?

No, it was "You shouldn't whinge about being hungry because you have access to food."
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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #275 on: October 10, 2011, 01:26:45 am »

That one has always been around.  "No Irish Need Apply," anyone?
Relevant. From everything I've read, it's a myth. (Not racial discrimination in general, just that type of sign.)
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mainiac

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #276 on: October 10, 2011, 02:18:22 am »

I am suspicious of this writer.  He seems a bit flippant.  I have seen quite a few primary sources (reproduced obviously) from the 1850s to 1920s that indicated a "racial" type of discrimination was at play.  And there are people still alive today who can tell you that Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. were often regarded as not being properly white like English, French, Germans and Scandinavians until well into this century.  Yet this author tells us that there was essentially no discrimination against the Irish in the 1860s?

I might be willing to acknowledge that the actual phrase "no Irish need apply" might not be real or commonspread.  But I wouldn't trust the rest as far as I can spit.  When ever someone throws the term "chip on the shoulder" around, I have learned to be mistrustful of what they say.

Sometimes people make up a term that succinctly describes what they mean.  And in that sense, I think "no irish need apply" seems real enough.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 02:20:49 am by mainiac »
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Aqizzar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #277 on: October 10, 2011, 03:18:52 am »

That one has always been around.  "No Irish Need Apply," anyone?
Relevant. From everything I've read, it's a myth. (Not racial discrimination in general, just that type of sign.)

Not exactly relevant to the argument, but more relevant to the thread.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #278 on: October 10, 2011, 05:09:53 am »

Been hearing lots of buzz that Oct 15th is going to be a major event, with shows of solidarity pledged from over 1000 cities around the world.

Indiana has never had a major political protest that I've been aware of, and I've been actively following this stuff for at least 4 years.  Now I know of four cities in Indiana that are getting involved.  That's mind-blowing to me.  This place is like the apathy capital of the world.  Seriously.  A week ago, I could count the number of people I know here who give a shit about anything on my fingers.  On Saturday, 1200 people marched here, and the camaraderie is great.  People are being very mature about not introducing volatile politics into their conversation.  It's good enough for us that everyone is fed up and there's no use in fighting over what long-term solutions we favor until we take back the power to implement them.

There's an uber-hub of livestream footage from over a dozen occupied locations here.
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PsyberianHusky

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #279 on: October 10, 2011, 06:30:57 am »

Well, I guess I may try to make some time to go to San Fransisco and casually pump a fist, The politics here are way above my head, but I want the people who are in the cast of wealth and power to know their behavior has been making me cringe.
I am for free enterprise, but the system we have in place right now appears to only be "free" for established captains of industry.
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RedKing

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #280 on: October 10, 2011, 07:11:14 am »

I am suspicious of this writer.  He seems a bit flippant.  I have seen quite a few primary sources (reproduced obviously) from the 1850s to 1920s that indicated a "racial" type of discrimination was at play.  And there are people still alive today who can tell you that Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. were often regarded as not being properly white like English, French, Germans and Scandinavians until well into this century.  Yet this author tells us that there was essentially no discrimination against the Irish in the 1860s?

This. My great-grandparents (Volga German immigrants) were tasked during WWII with having their farm used as a sort of POW camp for German POWs. The thought was that eastern Montana was a good place to hold them, because they weren't likely to get far if they escaped, they could be put to use harvesting wheat and sugar beets, and there was a local German-speaking population to obviate the need for interpreters.

However, the Army came by and removed every single sharp object from the house first. Because, y'know....can't fully trust those folks. They might be Americans, but they're still German-Americans.  :-\
Apparently, they relented enough to give the butter knives and one kitchen knife back when my great-grandmother protested that if the Army wanted them to feed the POWs, they'd damn well need a knife to cook with.



As to the Occupy Movement, life conspired to keep me away yesterday, although Raleigh is apparently having assemblies twice a day between now and the 15th. Yeah, the 15th is shaping up to be something big. Unforunately (or possibly fortunately) I'll be at work that day. I'd like to be out there, but at least I'll be in a good position to get an idea of what the law enforcement response is looking like, especially at the Fed level.
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Vector

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #281 on: October 10, 2011, 07:15:56 am »

I've spent enough time reading articles with that tone from white people about people of color that I'm having a lot of trouble trusting the author's bias.

I agree that that particular sign may be in question, but a lot of the assumptions of the article that fueled the research are misguided, at best, and damaging at worse.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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DJ

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #282 on: October 10, 2011, 02:05:23 pm »

Wasn't the statement "you shouldn't eat when you're hungry because there are people who are starving"?

No, it was "You shouldn't whinge about being hungry because you have access to food."
Nah, closer to "You shouldn't whinge about being hungry because you have access to water and some people are dying of thirst."
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Aqizzar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #283 on: October 10, 2011, 05:36:03 pm »

Let's get back on point, eh?  Glenn Beck is keeping it classy.

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They will come for you and drag you into the streets and kill you. They will do it. ... If you’re wealthy, they will kill you for what you have. You cannot tolerate this kind of stuff. You certainly do not encourage it.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #284 on: October 10, 2011, 05:46:20 pm »

Maybe he thinks we're having a french revolution repeat, only with wealthy people getting the guillotine instead of nobility.

Or maybe he's just being Glenn Beck. Yeah, probably that.
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