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[Jake]

If you're going to be arrested, get arrested without resistance and then make a huge deal out of it so it has to go to court. I'm hoping that all of these cases go onto court and NYPD gets hit HARD for what its been doing to the protesters. Maybe not NYPD as a whole, but definitely the ones who are just blatantly abusing the public in false justice.

That assumes that actually being innocent of all wrongdoing will necessarily help you in court. If the only video evidence comes from your fellow protestors and two of the arresting officer's colleagues claim you were acting aggressively and ignored multiple warnings to stand down, who's a jury going to believe? And very few cops will willingly drop a colleague in the shit for less than murder, even if it means perjuring themselves.

[Truean]

Quick question. Anyone know what the legal ramifications would be if a cop starts pepper-spraying people without provocation and someone defended themselves with lethal force? Because honestly, in the unlikely event I bother going to any sort of demonstraion -I've watched two successive British governments blithely ignore too many of them to believe there's a point- I'll stick to peaceful protest right up until the police start violating their own use-of-force policies. After that, all bets are off.

"Don't hit police officers," is advice you will rarely if ever go wrong with....

First, I'm not familiar with the English system, but you are better off to all have video cameras. Seriously, there is every reason to have a shitload of cameras 1.) Hitting a police officer, even if it is somehow justified, will never, ever look good in court and "lethal force" just... don't , 2.) It would be hilarious, 3.) Imagine you're the police officer. You've got 75-100 cameras pointed directly at you.... Are you going to do anything stupid? 4.) If the police officer does do something stupid, your lawyer will love the evidence in court, 5.) If possible do a live recorded webcast so things are kept track of for evidence and PR purposes, 6.) A camera is absolutely not a weapon and no one is going to be able to say they mistook it for one with a straight face, 7.) every action has an equal and opposite reaction, violence, as an action is no exception. Summation: Only a stupid officer will try something stupid with more cameras pointed at him than he can count, and if he does, he's on camera to be punished for it.

Video cameras at protests, documents, prevents, proves....

filling a class action lawsuit against the NYPD, claiming the mass arrest as entrapment. 

It's rare to see a legit sounding entrapment defense but.... They might actually have it if they can prove it.

[Montague]

I'm guessing this Wall Street occupation thing might turn into a sort of anti-tea-party movement? We had them protesting everywhere and now we have left-wingers complaining about the same basic problems, only with not as coherent of a political message. "Rich people suck" is about as close to a universal sentiment such as I've gathered, anyways.

What do you suppose they hope to accomplish with this Wall Street protest?

[Leafsnail]

Only a stupid officer will try something stupid with more cameras pointed at him than he can count, and if he does, he's on camera to be punished for it.

Especially since the officer who knocked Ian Tomlinson to the ground on camera is now facing a manslaughter charge - you can't do that kind of thing on camera and get away with it.

I don't think police officers here would even use pepper spray though, generally they try to make their meaner tactics not explicitly violent (such as kettling).

[Angle]

I agree the movement seriously needs some organization. If they could only get that, then things would get interesting.

[RedKing]

I agree the movement seriously needs some organization. If they could only get that, then things would get interesting.

It's developing. SNCC wasn't built in a day.


EDIT: Bleah. I'm already seeing this start to go off the rails. They're having an open web vote on which "demands" to officially make part of the OccupyWallSt platform. Open vote means it can be skewed hard by people with an agenda. So now you're seeing demands like "eliminate the Federal Reserve" and "abolish the 16th Amendment" getting added in, with significant support. Both of which are hot-button issues of the Tea Party and fringe Right lately.

You're also seeing stuff like "Re-open investigations in the 9/11 attacks" getting strong support. Sure, I'm not opposed if Congress decided they want to do that. But making that a "demand" instantly hurts your credibility and diffuses your message.

[Aqizzar]

An article I link to for one obvious reason.  Goddammit.  Also, interesting reading, and how thankfully more serious people are showing up, which makes more serious people take the "Occupation" seriously.

Seriously?  Seriously.

[Descan]

Duuuude. Seriously.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hey, that's pretty cool. I just hope they get a coherent "Do this or this occupation continues" plan, or this'll go nowhere fast.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I've heard some second-hand reports of antisemitic protesters recently, but I have no conformation. Anyone else heard this, or is it just a rumor?

[atomicwinter]

I've heard some second-hand reports of antisemitic protesters recently, but I have no conformation. Anyone else heard this, or is it just a rumor?

It's bull. There is a lot of smearing going around. People are afraid of a REAL grassroots movement, and not the little tea party.

[Lagslayer]

That everyone came to the rally with something different to protest tells me that this is just basically hate gatherings. The only thing they have in common is that they want to "stick it to the man", but none of them can agree on what or how to do it. If a unified voice emerges from them at some point, at their heart, they are still just an unfocused angry mob, and this will show once again after the whole thing is over, lose or win.

[Chaoswizkid]

That everyone came to the rally with something different to protest tells me that this is just basically hate gatherings. The only thing they have in common is that they want to "stick it to the man", but none of them can agree on what or how to do it. If a unified voice emerges from them at some point, at their heart, they are still just an unfocused angry mob, and this will show once again after the whole thing is over, lose or win.

I don't think you could be more wrong.

I don't even think any of them are saying "Stick it to the man!", in the sense that I don't think you can find any quotes from the protestors saying so. Most of what I'm hearing from the protesters consists of well-developed arguments against the current sociopolitical and economic structure. If I'm not hearing that, then I'm hearing that there are problems with the current system based upon people's experiences, although the why and how aren't really described.

If I'm hearing neither of those things, then I'm hearing about how important it is to let people know they can make a change. I'm hearing that for too long people have said to themselves, "No one else is doing it, and I can't affect anything by myself, so I won't even try," and this is an attempt to abolish that defeatist mentality.

Most of the protests are against the current problems our society faces today (mostly about the economic situation and corporate greed), but you will find within the Occupation protests a lot of other ideals.

"Hate gatherings", I believe, implies they are just there to shout and be angry and be justified in being angry. It doesn't imply the actual goal, which is to force change to occur and to get people believing that their individual voice can be heard, which should impact our democracy. The protests are trying to change things for the better, not to just complain why it sucks so much.

If they had a unified voice, a leading figure or another mission, then the entire spirit of pure democracy (which can have its flaws if abused) would be gone and the protests would become generic in nature.

[Vester]

I've heard some second-hand reports of antisemitic protesters recently, but I have no conformation. Anyone else heard this, or is it just a rumor?

Given the sheer number of people there, it's a fair bet that at least one of them is antisemitic.

And considering that one of the long running American conspiracy theories is that Wall Street, the Banks, the Media, and the Police are OWNED BAH DAH JOOS, I have no doubt that there are people who dislike the jewish out there.

I've heard some second-hand reports of antisemitic protesters recently, but I have no conformation. Anyone else heard this, or is it just a rumor?

It's bull. There is a lot of smearing going around. People are afraid of a REAL grassroots movement, and not the little tea party.

The tea party is huge, dear. Huge (28% of Americans are tea partiers according to a Gallup poll last year), dumb, and terrifying. The difference is that it's spread out across multiple states, while the disaffected middle class now descending on Wall Street has the advantage of being concentrated in one area.

[Lagslayer]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That everyone came to the rally with something different to protest tells me that this is just basically hate gatherings. The only thing they have in common is that they want to "stick it to the man", but none of them can agree on what or how to do it. If a unified voice emerges from them at some point, at their heart, they are still just an unfocused angry mob, and this will show once again after the whole thing is over, lose or win.

I don't think you could be more wrong.

I don't even think any of them are saying "Stick it to the man!", in the sense that I don't think you can find any quotes from the protestors saying so. Most of what I'm hearing from the protesters consists of well-developed arguments against the current sociopolitical and economic structure. If I'm not hearing that, then I'm hearing that there are problems with the current system based upon people's experiences, although the why and how aren't really described.

If I'm hearing neither of those things, then I'm hearing about how important it is to let people know they can make a change. I'm hearing that for too long people have said to themselves, "No one else is doing it, and I can't affect anything by myself, so I won't even try," and this is an attempt to abolish that defeatist mentality.

Most of the protests are against the current problems our society faces today (mostly about the economic situation and corporate greed), but you will find within the Occupation protests a lot of other ideals.

"Hate gatherings", I believe, implies they are just there to shout and be angry and be justified in being angry. It doesn't imply the actual goal, which is to force change to occur and to get people believing that their individual voice can be heard, which should impact our democracy. The protests are trying to change things for the better, not to just complain why it sucks so much.

If they had a unified voice, a leading figure or another mission, then the entire spirit of pure democracy (which can have its flaws if abused) would be gone and the protests would become generic in nature.

I meant "stick it to the man" mockingly, not that one of them actually said it (on video, at least). Most of them are just spewing the same rhetoric we hear all the time, so it's hard for me to take it seriously (then again, I'm a bit of cynic when it comes to this sort of thing).

An unorganized protest is too unfocused to have a serious effect. Even a focused protest tends to accomplish little, if anything meaningful. The people in power know what people say, they certainly aren't that stupid. The only thing that makes protests work is to show that people can be organized against something, and that makes them dangerous. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, because in the end, the threat of force is the only thing keeping them in line (except the very rare politician that actually cares for the people and was unaware of what the people wanted). Everything else is just a warning that we will resort to force if they don't shape up, and means nothing if we are not willing to follow through with it. This can be used for good or bad.

That being said, protests have been bastardized and now just seem loud and obnoxious, regardless of their message. Or is it just my cynicism again?

[zehive]

Posting in support of occupy wallstreet. I've been outraged for so long by the government of our own nation and of many nations of the world. I've felt dismayed and forlorn about the control multinational corporations have on the world and the corruption in so many ways of our government.

I fully support occupy wallstreet. Though I may not be able to get to NYC to support them personally, I'll do what I can here.