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[XXSockXX]

If people work less, their productivity goes down.

This... isn't actually true, or at least not necessarily true. Overworking is a thing and tends to lower productivity. Further, there's a very definite and very strong "diminishing returns" to extra man hours, especially in heavily automated workplaces. After a point you just don't get more out of extra hours than it costs to have them. To boot, sometimes productivity is actually a bad thing -- you might be able to produce a trillion gizmos, but if the gizmo market is only buying up five hundred or so...

Also, if you're talking the states, while we are still one of the strongest manufacturing economies in the world, industrial production and exports hasn't been then backbone of our economy for years -- the states is a service economy now, full stop. We do some manufacturing on the side, but that's not our primary money maker, hasn't been for a while, and shows every sign of being even less so going into the future. Things are changing, y'know?

2 part-time jobs are costlier to the employer than 1 full-time worker. It's not the wages, it's the non-labour costs for social security, insurances, retirement funds. Talking about qualified workers, not low-paid low wage jobs.

No, I was talking about Germany. Service economy is important here too, but manufacturing and exports are still the biggest thing here.

[Sheb]

Actually, service accounts for around 70% of the economy. Germany has more manufacturing than your average EU country, but its still a service economy.

[XXSockXX]

Ok, but lots of services (logistics, IT etc) depend on the manufacturers directly or indirectly.

[Eagle_eye]

That's the case with all services, everywhere.

[alexandertnt]

Automation is a wonderful thing. It has enabled us to produce more food, collect and treat water more efficiently etc.

Imagine if we could completely automate the growing of food, there should be enough food for everyone regardless of their working status...

The problem isn't only that they can't save enough to do something else, but that they have mortgages and families and that they don't want to spent years getting the qualifications for another, more interesting job.

Increased automation should make things like constructing houses cheaper. So more automation everywhere should means less work, less money and cheaper stuff.

[SalmonGod]

Automation is a wonderful thing. It has enabled us to produce more food, collect and treat water more efficiently etc.

Imagine if we could completely automate the growing of food, there should be enough food for everyone regardless of their working status...

It should be a wonderful thing.  We just haven't learned how to allow ourselves to appreciate it yet, as a society.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  We need to rethink the way our economy assigns value.  Basing it on scarcity doesn't work anymore.  There are more human beings than there is work to do.  There is more food and shelter than human beings.  Yet we only allow human beings that work to have access to food and shelter.  It's completely illogical, impractical, immoral, and broken, and it's only going to get worse.  We're clinging to models of organization for society that were developed for circumstances that no longer exist, and it's becoming a serious obstacle to progress in further improving our circumstances and achieving our potentials.  A universally guaranteed base income would be a major source of relief, and I fully support it.  However, I wouldn't call it a solution.

[Dutchling]

* Dutchling just hopes and assumes stuff will automatically get better and ignores all problems in the world.

[werty892]

Actually, recently, manufacturing has picked up again, but its not more people managing automated lines than hammering in 100 bolts a hour. Plus high tech industry is becoming a very important thing now, due to the large amounts of skilled workers.

[XXSockXX]

Well, full automation is not coming anytime soon. I know a guy who works in a factory producing small engine components. He is basically programming and supervising machines. It is still assembly line work in a way, it just requires more skills and special training. The company has thousands of people working there and is still expanding, at least as long as the car industry hasn't collapsed yet.
It's the low qualification jobs in these factories that get automated or moved to China, jobs that were mostly done by low qualified people, often middle-aged women working part-time, that can't find other jobs that pay as well.

[Lagslayer]

I'd repeat my opinion on increasing automation, but I'm sure everyone here already knows it.

[Descan]

Who are you, again?

[Dutchling]

Who are you, again?

He's the slayer of lag, obviously.

[SalmonGod]

Spoiler: remember this guy? (click to show/hide)

Update

Summary:  He got 8 months of paid vacation while under investigation.  The investigation found that he did a whole bunch of things horribly wrong, but still somehow came to the ultimate conclusion that his actions were appropriate.  He was fired anyway.  Now he's trying to claim psychological disability as resulting from the experience.

[SalmonGod]

Pretty much.  And I can understand he probably went through quite a bit after becoming internet infamous.  The problem I have with it is you don't see any of his victims claiming they're too psychologically damaged to work for the rest of their lives after the treatment he gave them, which was in some cases life-threatening.

[Urist Imiknorris]

The only good part of that is that he was fired.