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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 294274 times)

SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4275 on: April 08, 2013, 06:46:20 am »

We've been told for some time that the economy is recovering, yet 90-something% of that recovery has gone to the hands of the already rich, and the average person continues to be worse off.

Key words on the investment thing "on behalf of their account holders".  It still represents money that is controlled by and primarily serving the interests of the few, most likely to the end of further hoarding.
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SalmonGod

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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Duuvian

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4277 on: April 11, 2013, 10:11:08 pm »

Figured you might find this interesting.  There was a massive leak of offshore accounts details, which is apparently got lots of juicy info in it.  http://www.icij.org/offshore/secret-files-expose-offshores-global-impact

http://www.icij.org/blog/2013/04/highlights-offshore-leaks-so-far

Nice, very well done and my appreciative thanks. At least 1/3 of the world's wealth is stagnating in bank accounts seemingly doing nothing useful, huh. No wonder I can't find a job.

That's why one of Occupy's main messages has been that inequality is the problem.  When somebody has so much wealth that they literally have no use for it other than hoarding it for its own sake, everyone else suffers for their obscene mental compulsion.

Don't banks invest money on behalf of their investors (account holders)? Just because there's money in an account, doesn't by itself tell us the "money is doing nothing useful".

The money sitting idle in the bank is a symptom of the problem, though, not the problem itself. Unutilized money ceases to have any economic meaning. e.g. if you had 1 billion dollars and bury it in a hole in the ground, that's 1 billion that's no longer in circulation. Too much aggressive investing could actually be inflationary / a bubble, e.g. you might prefer the money sits in the bank rather than everyone drives property prices through the roof for "investment properties", and regular people can't buy or rent a house.

If they don't invest it locally or in country at least, it encourages the current banking system (in the USA) to release freshly printed money directly to the banks because the system is designed from a trickle down perspective. If I may propose a  theory, this causes inflation which doesn't effect the banks (as much) because they are the ones receiving the new money supply. By giving it directly to banks to loan, if they fail to put it back into a useful place, there is no recourse but to give them even more money in the hope they do something useful. If they receive 100% or a large percentage anyways of the new money, by not loaning what they receive, the inflation would not apply as much to them as they are the ones receiving the new money and thus the inflation, which is sort of percentage based will not effect them meaningfully because it puts even more of a majority of the money supply into their power. Meanwhile, non-banks are effected dramatically by the manipulation of money supply and clamor for ever lower interest rates because apparently the banks are not receiving enough to loan.

Meanwhile, at such low interest rates, there doesn't seem to me much incentive for banks to loan out more than what is necessary to pay back the interest or to fulfill their obligations. I'd suggest this is why growth has been extremely modest; the banks only loan the bare minimum to cover their obligations, which are themselves growing greater due to their accumulation of Fed loans; in other words an increase of volume being behind the modest growth despite being near 0% interest to the banks and much higher when leaving the banks, allowing them to easily limit the amount they have to put out for loan. Thus, perhaps if a large, likely international bank wishes to continue to accumulate easy, easy capital which can then loaned out at dozens or hundreds of times the interest they pay to the Fed (possibly once Fed interest rates go back up, as to increase loans now might stimulate the economy enough to encourage the Fed to raise rates on future loans), a bank could easily benefit if they allow their money to stagnate for as long as it continues to result in very low interest rate loans from the Federal reserve.

My solution would be to raise the Fed's rate as well as raising the rate on already outstanding loans. It would not crash the banks unless they refuse to find good loans or unless good loans do not exist. If good loans do not exist if I had the power I'd set up a government controlled banking and loans to operate at a minimized loss headed up by people disconnected and perhaps even that despise the current banking industry yet who are knowledgeable and willing to learn enough to run such a thing, and the leader would have to be a person with political ambitions willing to sign a non-corruption agreement wherein he trades all his 'political capital' if the organization becomes corrupt under their watch.

To allow the banks to continue what I consider blatant looting of government and citizens will result in an a slowly at best but surely inflated currency, an inflation that effects the many small holders of money the most because they have the least and that little will be worth less in trade, and the much fewer large holders almost nothing because they will have accumulated all the additional money added to the system while still being the most likely, on an individual level, to be able to flee from the currency should it indicate a crash due to inflation due to having enough to be able to live internationally rather than being forced to live locally.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 03:13:34 am by Duuvian »
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4278 on: April 13, 2013, 05:45:54 am »

How are occupy when it comes to thinking outside their locality? I don't get an enormous sense of the "99 %" mattering enough to go out of their way to help if they don't live in America, or if I'm feeling generous the west.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4279 on: April 13, 2013, 06:39:23 am »

I can't think of anything Occupy in the U.S. has done to "help" anyone in other countries, but it would be rather unfair to expect that.  It's not an organization with full-time paid staff and tons of resources.  It is a global movement, though.  Most of the problems Occupy seeks to resolve are growing problems world-wide, and there were many displays of global solidarity and communication during the encampment phase.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Scoops Novel

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4280 on: April 13, 2013, 06:54:02 am »

I understand. Hopefully they'll develop it further, and wont lose interest.
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Sheb

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4281 on: April 13, 2013, 10:37:39 am »

Yeah you've got other movement, like the Spanish Indignados that are closely linked to Occupy.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4282 on: April 13, 2013, 10:45:52 am »

Not much has come out of them, sadly enough, TBH. For all their noise after the elections most voters still went for the traditional two-parties. This is changing (slowly but surely), but more due to the blatant corruption and incompetence of the standing political class, which is becoming increasingly obvious, than any of the "indignados" acts.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4283 on: April 13, 2013, 10:49:58 am »

Yeah you've got other movement, like the Spanish Indignados that are closely linked to Occupy.

Not only that, but groups self-identified as Occupy chapters sprung up around the world.  The UK and Australia had the most active ones, IIRC.  I know London and Melbourne had large Occupy encampments going for months.  Many other places had marches and protests, without the encampments.

Map

I've posted links in this thread before to events at some of them.  And back when most of the camps were still running, they communicated online very frequently.  Since the movement has been forcibly shoved out of sight, it's become more localized.  There are still active global communication hubs where people who identify with the movement are discussing things, but most activities are now small groups doing local activism under the Occupy banner.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 10:55:04 am by SalmonGod »
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

scriver

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4284 on: April 13, 2013, 10:57:09 am »

lol@SwedishOccupy
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4285 on: April 13, 2013, 08:34:04 pm »

Lawrence Lessig: We the People, and the Republic we must reclaim
Not able to watch.

Reclaim what?

I'm gonna guess it's from the voices in their heads.

Basically from oligarchy.  Lessig has been campaigning against the excessive power wielded by lobbies for a few years now.  He also drops some pretty good statistics about how less than two hundred people provide the bulk of all campaign funding in major elections, meaning they basically get to choose what candidates everyone else votes on.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4286 on: April 26, 2013, 11:36:07 pm »

Everything Is Rigged: The Biggest Price-Fixing Scandal Ever

Is it time to break out the torches and pitchforks yet?
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

scriver

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4287 on: April 27, 2013, 02:50:39 am »

Yes.
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da_nang

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4288 on: April 27, 2013, 03:46:14 am »

Motherfuckers.

*RABBLERABBLERABBLE*
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Frumple

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4289 on: April 27, 2013, 05:07:50 am »

Makes you wonder if Smith would have been impressed or pissed off we've apparently found the "invisible hand" of the market... and it's actually some fuckers squirreled away screwing with basically everything.

S'like looking behind the proverbial curtain and instead of finding a wizard you find some jackass buggering a piggybank :-\
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