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Author Topic: Occupying Wallstreet  (Read 294350 times)

scriver

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4095 on: November 14, 2012, 10:47:00 am »

Being a socialist, I see any attempts to further the social agenda as progressive :P
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4096 on: November 14, 2012, 04:35:21 pm »

That would make the progressive thread very broad in scope, indeed.

An inspiring view of the strike in Madrid

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Scelly9

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4097 on: November 14, 2012, 10:10:59 pm »

Wow. That is a lot of people.
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Mr. Palau

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4098 on: November 14, 2012, 11:02:43 pm »

But then you'd be unable to buy low, sell high. You'd have to buy high, and hope to sell higher.

It'd do away with the leeches and only leave the legitimate investors. Losing out the ability to make a "quick buck" with no labor investment isn't the best argument against something.




Legitimate investors don't buy low and sell high? Jesus.

Legitimate investors buy stocks to hold longterm. Speculators rely on "buy low sell high"

fuck the speculators.

"buy low sell high" is NOT INVESTING, it's a parasitic activity that generates no GDP or value.
That is stupid becuase speculators bring stocks closer to fair market value under normal conditions. If a stock is overvalued, speculators short sell and bringit back down to earth. Speculators are of courese prone to the same irrational behaivor that plagues long-term investors as well as any other profession.

By bringing stock values more in line with where they should be according to value investinh principles, as well as others, speculators improve the market as a source of information, relayed through the price mechanism. Improved information helps long term investors pick better stocks, and thus earn more in the long term and improve the efficent allocation of capital, the goal of any financial system.

Should we ban gambling as well?
Gambling doesn't destroy wealth, so there's no comparison to be made here.

Short selling = "You make money if you can cause damage to a business" (you can also predict something else causing damage to a business, but the incentive to fuck up the business is still there)

Gambling = "You make money randomly"
Well yeah, there really is no comparison there, since as you mentioned gambling is random and short selling is a comphrensive strategy.

Short selling is still essential however, as it prevents many bubbles from forming and bursts many as well. The incentive to scrutinize business and look for flaws among even the best of them is what makes sure that the market capitalization and the stock price of the company are all in line with the abstract ideal market values.

Short sellers have never caused anything bad to happen, they simply recognize bad decisions.

Fir example, short sellers made out like bandits in the mortgage crisis. They made money off of the poor performence of many banks. However, they did not cause that flaw, the banks had already misallocated capital and the short sellers were either lucky or just more knowledgeable and predicted their losses before anyone else.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4099 on: November 15, 2012, 12:21:37 am »

Fir example, short sellers made out like bandits in the mortgage crisis. They made money off of the poor performence of many banks. However, they did not cause that flaw, the banks had already misallocated capital and the short sellers were either lucky or just more knowledgeable and predicted their losses before anyone else.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken here.  I recognize that I'm not too knowledgable on this.

But wasn't one of the major problems with the crisis that mortgage lenders were intentionally giving out bad loans so that they could then bet on the failure of those practices in the market?
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4100 on: November 15, 2012, 03:54:14 am »

For the record: in Spain the strikes are not being too successful, as few people can afford to lose a day of wages, let alone be fired, ln the current economic climate.

The post-strike protests are multitudinary though
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Levi

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4101 on: November 15, 2012, 05:04:02 pm »

To clarify(because I haven't been following this closely), are the protests because they don't want to bail out the greek, or are they because they don't want to force greece to the austerity restrictions(or something else)?
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4102 on: November 15, 2012, 05:06:00 pm »

It's not exclusively about Greece.  I believe every country involved was protesting the austerity measures and general economic conditions being imposed on them.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Levi

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4103 on: November 15, 2012, 05:12:49 pm »

Okay, gotcha.
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Moghjubar

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4104 on: November 15, 2012, 05:14:37 pm »

So, apparently Occupy is buying up debt... and cancelling it!  Medical, student loans, etc.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/15/occupy-debt-relief-campaign-buys-100000-worth-of-debt/
http://rollingjubilee.org/
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Levi

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4105 on: November 15, 2012, 05:16:04 pm »

So, apparently Occupy is buying up debt... and cancelling it!  Medical, student loans, etc.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/15/occupy-debt-relief-campaign-buys-100000-worth-of-debt/
http://rollingjubilee.org/

Ha, what a good idea.  Good on them!
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SalmonGod

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4106 on: November 15, 2012, 05:17:56 pm »

Occupy is doing a lot of cool things, lately.  I just haven't had time to read and share the articles.  They've also organized relief for victims of Hurricane Sandy.  There have been some pretty major boasts about the scale and effectiveness of these relief efforts, but I won't back them up on it because I haven't got around to looking at the evidence myself.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Leafsnail

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4107 on: November 15, 2012, 06:19:28 pm »

It's a really interesting protest.  It serves as both an act of charity and a strong political statement.
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Heron TSG

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4108 on: November 15, 2012, 06:40:40 pm »

Hopy shit, that charity there is cancelling $20+ for every donated dollar, at this rate. I'm going to donate to that.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« Reply #4109 on: November 15, 2012, 06:48:17 pm »

What exactly would happen if people started clubbing together to buy their own debts?
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