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[MadocComadrin]

classical Fascist ideology (conservative nationalism)

Facism is NOT conservative nationalism. Conservativism is the context-sensitive belief of resisting change.

As for regulation, over-regulation could be a stepping stone to either socialism or fascism, depending on HOW the regulation works. If the state starts nationalizing the means of production in order to redistribute wealth "equally" then we're into socialism. If the state starts regulating (not necessarily nationalizing) corporations to limit free market and allocate resources to the state, then you have fascism. Likewise, if you see the domination of corporations but a limited free market, facist corporatism may be taking place (there are many forms of corporatism. In general, fascism, like communism tends to reject free market capitalism as being hedonistic.

The situation in the US is neither facist nor communistic; it is (close to being) Corporatocratic (and hard to spell ). In general, this describes a unhealthy power of corporations in or over the state (as opposed to the state over the corporations). It is as much of an enemy to free market capitalism as it is an enemy to individual rights and society in general.

In my opinion (being right of center), regulation of the free market needs to do (and be limited to) protection of a consumer driven free market, protection of consumers, protection against monopolies (these 3 are practical pitfalls, and don't exist in ideal capitalism), protection of rights and ideas granted by CLASSICAL liberalism, and finally protection of democracy/against corporatocracy (this regulation in particular is actually much more beneficial to a free market than it seems, since corporatocracy eventually interferes with and destroys the free market). I'm also fine with environmental regulation to an extent, but I think any further regulation (especially social) should be short term while the markets adjust to meet the needs of society.

Even if you think that there should be more regulation, I think that we can all agree that this is a good starting point (unless you happen to be a facist or a socialist).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

classical Fascist ideology (conservative nationalism)

Facism is NOT conservative nationalism.

Indeed. Fascist ideology is distinctly different from conservative nationalism, which generally operates under the term Reactionary. Fascist revolutions were radical events trying to institute a new order under a consolidated national identity and all-powerful figurehead, not reactionary ones trying to restore the old order of powerful monarchs.

[scriver]

classical Fascist ideology (conservative nationalism)

Facism is NOT conservative nationalism. Conservativism is the context-sensitive belief of resisting change.

The Italian fascists (as they ended up being after they weeded all the weak socialists, communists and anarchists out of the movement) were conservative nationalists. That is all I meant by it.

Indeed. Fascist ideology is distinctly different from conservative nationalism, which generally operates under the term Reactionary. Fascist revolutions were radical events trying to institute a new order under a consolidated national identity and all-powerful figurehead, not reactionary ones trying to restore the old order of powerful monarchs.

The main difference between them was that one wanted the old order of privileged nobility under a powerful leader back and the other one didn't care as much for what blood their leader were born from as long as he was "strong". They were both different kinds of conservative nationalism.

And really "all-powerful figurehead" == "powerful monarchs" in all but words.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Not really. Monarchs are defined by their blood, all-powerful dictators like Hitler are not. That might seem arbitrary to you, but it wasn't in 1920.

You were born into the aristocracy. No way in, no way out. Anyone could agree to follow the Nazis and gain power within the party. Even if they were of one of the many categories the Nazis would see dead, all they would have to do is hide it.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I do get the liberty of asking you to explain yourself when you make a ridiculous statement like: "Isn't an overly regulated capitalism a fascist entity at heart?" We are not fascists here, you don't get to deny me that liberty.

I never said anyone was Fascist. Only stating how unchecked government 'regulation' can lead to worse things than we see today.

The Iranian revolution began mostly as a secular movement based on democratic reform, yet we see a cartoonishly malevolent theocracy in Persia now.

[Zangi]

I do get the liberty of asking you to explain yourself when you make a ridiculous statement like: "Isn't an overly regulated capitalism a fascist entity at heart?" We are not fascists here, you don't get to deny me that liberty.

I never said anyone was Fascist. Only stating how unchecked government 'regulation' can lead to worse things than we see today.

The Iranian revolution began mostly as a secular movement based on democratic reform, yet we see a cartoonishly malevolent theocracy in Persia now.

Is that not thanks to the US messing their shit up? 
"Democracy is great, but you can't have it cause we want someone who would dance to our strings."  But they messed up that last part up too.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

To be fair, the UK is also guilty of screwing up Iran. The CIA and MI6 worked together to take down the democratically elected government in favor of the Shah.

[Osmosis Jones]

That, and you have to remember that religion is a 'lowest common denominator' thing. Everyone agrees that the Shah is bad, gets rid of him. Now, however, you're stuck with conservatives, liberals, anarchists, you name it, all disagreeing on everything. No one group would be willing to let the other get elected, and you end up with stagnation. Enter the religious group, stage right; the vast majority of Iranians are muslim, and while all may not agree with all their idealogies, enough agree with most to accept them.

Party gets elected, then human nature comes to the fore, there is an undemocratic consolidation of power and we have a theocracy.

[Little]

There's been a General Strike called for May Day, anyone else gonna go rally instead of serving the system? 

[Glowcat]

classical Fascist ideology (conservative nationalism)

Facism is NOT conservative nationalism. Conservativism is the context-sensitive belief of resisting change.

Considering that Fascists cultivated a spirit of national unity by relying on traditions and a monocultural national identity, I'd say both Conservative and Nationalist both apply to the ideology rather well.

[MadocComadrin]

DId you read the part that said "context-sensitive belief of resisting change?" That is the definition of conservativism. Any thing else is just some media created schtick to demonize or rally (depending on the bias) people.

[Chaoswizkid]

An Occupy tentground just popped up at my university. Seems like they are pretty serious about it, which is good. I hope they generate a bit more discussion on the movement.

[Lagslayer]

I've been reading over some of the more recent pages again, and I find this rather amusing. All those things I said earlier in the thread, the things that I was all but called Hitler for saying, the general consensus now is that I was right all along.

The apology line starts here.
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[Glowcat]

And what general consensus is that?

I don't recall this thread turning favorable to the views you've espoused prior.

[lemon10]

Seeing how this thread is somehow already 200 pages long, could someone say or point to what he said, or where he said it?
EDIT: I was super surprised by this being 200 pages, but that was because I confused it with the new progressive thread, which has been around much shorter then this.
Since it is actually this thread, it being 200 pages is pretty understandable.